Need Guidance

[JoshCP527]

It does I mean you still need to make sure the PE table is right at least I do on the hellcat. I did the ve on it and the transitions with throttle changes showed more variation in my trim mapping of the ECT and IAT modifier maps. I entered the voltage offset table and the pressure multiplier table given by injector company. But the pw to mass and mass to pw all had to be tweaked and it gave the least amount of slightly lean spots in the IAT and ECT multiplier table maps I have hp tuners log stft and ltft on. VE is with all the injector data entered from them but fueling had more lean holes in it when transitioning but was more stable when at steady state. It might be different with the other setups as on the non hellcat cars VE and ANN seem to be a toss up or personal preference. I did ask a known e85 guy and he said injector scaling is how its done on the cats. I also changed the startup stuff but that is more because of the bigger injectors. With stock it was just playing with the fuel mass/pw and pw/fuel mass tables.

[tbrtuning]

If you turn the NN off and don't know what all needs fixed in the tune for different conditions (temperatures) then the customer might have issues later down the road. I'm not sure if this is an issue on the Jeep but I know the 392 Hemi doesn't cold start well without adjustments, for example. The neural network does so much that several places in the tune appear to not have ever been dialed in correctly because the NN is doing all the work.

[ddtech]

Huggins, PM me on FB i'll send u my map to compare.

[Mep_q8]

Yeah always switch of the NN if you want it tuned right.

392 and Hellcats do have some problems with cold start only when the Startup Multiplier and injector PW aren't dialed in correctly. There's no cranking VE like the GMs that I've seen, or maybe there is but hasn't been released?

[GHuggins]

I didn't mess with them, but I was wondering if the temp multipliers for the VE was what was needed to dial in the fueling with colder engine temps? I assume so. Fueling was +5 cold and -3ish hot. O2 dial in actually cleaned it up quite a bit with temperature changes.

[Hemituna]

"I was wondering if the temp multipliers for the VE was what was needed to dial in the fueling with colder engine temps?"

Correct

[brr]

The cam overlap settings.......
I've been playing with this my self lately being cautious as I don't want to chance any interference issues. Stock Cam Specs are: (this is for the 283hp motor)
Intake valve 39mm
Intake duration 260deg
Exhaust valave 30mm
Exhaust duration 251deg
128deg centerline
10deg overlap
Intake valve angle to bore 17deg
Exhaust valve angle to bore 18.8deg

Intake: Retard Advance
Open 2deg ATDC 48deg BTDC
Close 82deg ATDC 32deg ABDC

Exhaust: Retard Advance
Open 59deg BBDC 109deg BBDC
Close 12deg ATDC 38deg BTDC


The changes I have made:

Increase intake centerline at 5504rpm & 6816rpm to match 5952rpm
changed exhaust 1696 to 4352 exhaust to 110centerline
changed intake 1312rpm to 4352rpm to 107centerline
Applied to cam WOT and optimal settings
The midrange is where the cam centerlines dropped drastically for emissions....
No I have not dyno'd tested anything yet and my F/A and timing needs to be tuned as I'm commanding 11.6 at WOT and now I'm hitting 12.2....

(my software may be different from what your using)

[GHuggins]

"I was wondering if the temp multipliers for the VE was what was needed to dial in the fueling with colder engine temps?"

Correct

What I thought... Now are Dodges setup for anything over 1 adding fuel in these tables?

Still also curious on what you see these putting down? How much does cam timing affect boost and power output?

[Hemituna]

What I thought... Now are Dodges setup for anything over 1 adding fuel in these tables?

Correct. Have a look in the tune I posted...it has these changes.

Still also curious on what you see these putting down? How much does cam timing affect boost and power output?

I don't quote numbers as these things are all over the place with big wheels and tyres, lifts and the auto's often have to be dynoed in 4WD.
But % increase from stock is 75-80% on a good one. So if you see 200hp stock, I would expect 350ish.
The WOT cam timing helps power, but the PT cam changes (hi & low baro) really changes the way they drive.
The PT cam settings are sooooo lame and the biggest complaint on the Dodges is the lack of PT response/tq.
But emissions are the reason why they are like this stock. They all will make really good PT torque when modified.
Have a good look over the tune posted earlier in this thread, it has good cam numbers.

[GHuggins]

Is there a particular reason other than traction killing things that auto's require to be dynode in 4wd? I found out real quick to use the built in switch in the scanner to kill traction for good - using the switch in the vehicle would still allow it to kick in and try to lock up the rear brakes - scanner controls - no issues...

Great to know there's still another 20ish hp there... Thank You again for the tune to look over...

[Hemituna]

[QUOTE=GHuggins;472000]Is there a particular reason other than traction killing things that auto's require to be dynode in 4wd? I found out real quick to use the built in switch in the scanner to kill traction for good - using the switch in the vehicle would still allow it to kick in and try to lock up the rear brakes - scanner controls - no issues...

Works on some, not on others....weird

[brr]

The WOT cam timing helps power, but the PT cam changes (hi & low baro) really changes the way they drive.
The PT cam settings are sooooo lame and the biggest complaint on the Dodges is the lack of PT response/tq.
But emissions are the reason why they are like this stock. They all will make really good PT torque when modified.

Good point, I was hoping on playing with both worlds. Leaving my PT settings the way they are because there descent enough to where my wife can drive the car but I changed the WOT cam settings for when I drive the car...lol

[Bossy70]

Mep_q8 or Hemituna,
I tuned a 2013 Challenger 392 using VE Tables but got an agessive cold start issue (Uncontrollable revs). What do you usually find is a good starting point for correcting startup. Can you make a general recommendation with numbers/multipliers?

[WS6HUMMER]

Mep_q8 or Hemituna,
I tuned a 2013 Challenger 392 using VE Tables but got an agessive cold start issue (Uncontrollable revs). What do you usually find is a good starting point for correcting startup. Can you make a general recommendation with numbers/multipliers?

Did a 14 challenger that I took off the NN, it had similar issues, loped like it had an aftermarket cam when cold. Added to cold FA adder table if I remember correctly without looking at my computer.