help, shifts really soft after built trans w/ 4K stall

[DooSPX]

I have a built trans using the pro built kit, but my trans builder said he didnt want to use the vac. modulator that comes with the kit. so, since he didnt, it shifts like BUTT with my 4K stall. it feels like it slips in gear, VERY VERY soft shifts.... can I bump the line pressure??
I tried jimmyblue's force motor current and base shift pressure, but it didnt NOTHING at all. I was thinking starting at 30 and smoothing the base shift up to 96 in the last 640 rows, will that be too much...?????

[jimmyblue]

With that small and sloppy a converter you are probably
shifting into a very loose place. What's your shift extension
vs your machanical shift-to RPM? It's common to feel the
shifts soften with a converter, even my 3500 does that.

[DooSPX]

shift at 6300 shift extension is 5300
how safe can i bump the base shift pressure too on a built tranny. starting at 30 and smoothing the base shift up to 96 in the last 640 rows, will that be too much...?????

and, how do you log to check for trans or converter slip.

[Bill@HPTuners]

have you gotten rid of all the TM as well? I had a car with a 2800 stall+ built tranny that was seeing like 10-15* of spark when he'd go wot...TM was pulling a ton...and that wasnt in betwen shifts but during accelleration.

[DooSPX]

yeah, TM is 100% gone
I have it set from 0, then 20 smooth roll up to 96 and i like how it feels, its only quick at part throttle, and really fast and quick at WOT

[jimmyblue]

If this is the 2-3 shift then you'd shift back to 3900RPM
from 6300 in a hard-coupled setup; you're paddlewheeling
at 5300 with that converter and it's soaking up the shift
back-torque spike you used to feel as "firmness".

Add PIDs to your logging table view - force motor current,
line pressure %, trans input shaft RPM, trans output shaft
RPM, TCC slip RPM, TCC mode, trans current gear, time
of latest shift (keep engine RPM, speed, TPS etc.).

Look at your ratio of (input_shaft/output_shaft) in
Excel (if you don't have MSOffice, get something like
StarOffice or some sort of free spreadsheet tool). Or
maybe there is a custom PID thingy in HPTuners, I've
gotten set in my ways and don't read the docs
anymore ). Of interest is the ratio about the point
of shift (see trans current gear change). It should
move monotonically from 1.6xx to 1.000 across a
small number of frames. No flare (up), no taking a
dozen (1/10 sec) frames. The time of latest shift
should look consistent with the frames/10 it took.
Meanwhile the converter slip RPM should step way
up. This would be proper, all of the slip is fluidic
and not clutches. As you run up 3rd gear you should
see no deviation in the shaft ratio from 1.000. That
means your clutches, bands, everything hard in the
system is holding solid. That being the case, no
changes to force motor table are needed. If you see
the shift takes too long to settle, you probably want
to play with the commanded shift % vs torque,
and/or the upshift presure modifiers, more than
force motor remapping.

Look at your delivered torque-trans PID across the shift
and right before. This is the index for your shift pressure
%. You are not likely to be near 640lb-ft, more like the
300s. You can increase the pressure at the torque you
see (and above) if the shift actuation (shaft ratio) appears
sluggish. But you won't see a "feel" improvement against
the converter slop I expect. If you go bump the % profile
go at it incrementally, and leave off when another 10%
makes no evident difference in cycle time (then it's just
wasted effort). Some transmissions may actually see
degraded cycle time with excess pressure, it's a dance
with applies and releases internally, synchronized by
feeds & bleeds you can't get at without getting greasy
and taking things apart.

[DooSPX]

If this is the 2-3 shift then you'd shift back to 3900RPM
from 6300 in a hard-coupled setup; you're paddlewheeling
at 5300 with that converter and it's soaking up the shift
back-torque spike you used to feel as "firmness".

Add PIDs to your logging table view - force motor current,
line pressure %, trans input shaft RPM, trans output shaft
RPM, TCC slip RPM, TCC mode, trans current gear, time
of latest shift (keep engine RPM, speed, TPS etc.).

Look at your ratio of (input_shaft/output_shaft) in
Excel (if you don't have MSOffice, get something like
StarOffice or some sort of free spreadsheet tool). Or
maybe there is a custom PID thingy in HPTuners, I've
gotten set in my ways and don't read the docs
anymore ). Of interest is the ratio about the point
of shift (see trans current gear change). It should
move monotonically from 1.6xx to 1.000 across a
small number of frames. No flare (up), no taking a
dozen (1/10 sec) frames. The time of latest shift
should look consistent with the frames/10 it took.
Meanwhile the converter slip RPM should step way
up. This would be proper, all of the slip is fluidic
and not clutches. As you run up 3rd gear you should
see no deviation in the shaft ratio from 1.000. That
means your clutches, bands, everything hard in the
system is holding solid. That being the case, no
changes to force motor table are needed. If you see
the shift takes too long to settle, you probably want
to play with the commanded shift % vs torque,
and/or the upshift presure modifiers, more than
force motor remapping.

Look at your delivered torque-trans PID across the shift
and right before. This is the index for your shift pressure
%. You are not likely to be near 640lb-ft, more like the
300s. You can increase the pressure at the torque you
see (and above) if the shift actuation (shaft ratio) appears
sluggish. But you won't see a "feel" improvement against
the converter slop I expect. If you go bump the % profile
go at it incrementally, and leave off when another 10%
makes no evident difference in cycle time (then it's just
wasted effort). Some transmissions may actually see
degraded cycle time with excess pressure, it's a dance
with applies and releases internally, synchronized by
feeds & bleeds you can't get at without getting greasy
and taking things apart.

wow!! can someone convert that into english. i think i understood most of that. thanks Jimmy!!!