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Thread: LNF Optimum Torque Table

  1. #1

    LNF Optimum Torque Table

    This table is another torque management table. Sounds obvious enough. But, it is a limiter to power which affects the available power and other tables when trying to get full control of all the parameters of an LNF. In other words, anything less than 100% is limiting power. I prefer to control that with my right foot. When adjusted along with the other threads I've posted, you will be able to have a smooth timing table and use the Optimum Torque for boost spike control (off-throttle) in conjunction with the integral PID.

    After making these adjustments, you will notice your idle timing is probably way off. That is because this also should be viewed as an urgency table as explained with the Optimum Spark tables. By giving yourself 100% of the torque available, you are changing the scales of some of the reference tables which then need to be adjusted. Not difficult, but takes a couple logs cruising around town.

    First, the Optimum Torque table. It's a torque limiting table. Optimum torque shouldn't be anything less than 100% except where you get boost spikes. Here is an example of the table I run. I will explain it, but be careful! Just copy/paste this table will screw up your tune if you haven't adjusted all the other tables along with it.

    OPTIMUM TORQUE.png

    I request 100% of everything available. You'll see the OT table, although raised from stock, takes a drastic dip in the high rpm & low load areas. This is to control boost spikes. Find those areas where you are spiking and lower the OT table until eventually you can lift with no boost spikes. This table works in conjunction with several others.

    One immediate effect you may notice is that your idle timing is locked at -6 degrees. This is because you have now altered the urgency scale of the Optimum Torque table. With a much bigger bag of torque to take from (100% at idle instead of the stock table ~7%), the stock timing referenced is way too low making the ecu think that you are making too much power at idle. Its response, like the Optimum Spark's urgency with negative numbers, is to pull as much timing as possible to cut power.

    Take a look at the stock timing table:

    stock timing table.png

    Notice the odd drop in timing at idle load and rpm followed by a sudden jump at 1k rpm? There are a lot of tables that seem to be poorly adjusted from the factory. In order to fix the idle rpm being locked negative, begin raising the timing in the idle load and rpm regions until you bring your idle back to desired (15-20 degrees, wherever you personally like it). You can start by matching the timing in the 1k rpm row for 15% and 20% loads as a start.

    Another side effect which is identical is that you may notice the car lurching when leaving from a start at part throttle. Take a look at your log. What you will notice is the timing taking big negative dips. Same situation, the ecu is fighting what timing is being requested versus its thought that it's making too much power relative to the available torque. Same principle to fix applies.

    As you are driving part throttle, gently roll on and off the gas at different rpm. Go back in your log and find the rpm and load at which the timing drop occurs. Raise that cell 2 degrees and log again. When done properly, you will find your timing flatlines with no dips and is exactly what you are commanding.

    Also, don't forget that when you make changes to the spark tables you must simultaneously adjust the optimum spark tables so that you don't alter your OS numbers. That's a brief explanation of how to fix the Optimum Torque table.

  2. #2
    Advanced Tuner projectlnf's Avatar
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    now in adjusting this table you would essentially have to go back and adjust most of your tune again wouldn't you?
    2003 Ford excursion 6.0 PSD
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    AEM progressive water meth
    Custom suspension air bags
    8" lift
    35" tires

  3. #3
    It's been awhile since I changed this awhile ago, but the main area I had to adjust was idle timing and low load/low rpm just off idle. You'll feel the jerkiness of the ecu fighting to pull timing negative. Above 3k my spark table didn't change. I can't remember how it affected anything else as it was early in the discovery period of me redoing my tune. I figured why start tuning without 100% being optimum? You may find it affect a few other areas.

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    Idle will be the biggest change you will need to make. You will also see driving issues especially lower rpm vs load areas if you don't have everything adjusted right but the kicker is you will have the ability to have a very smooth drive and a lot of performance when this is maxed out and you tune everything else appropriately. The goal is a smoother then stock ride and max performance.

  5. #5
    Advanced Tuner projectlnf's Avatar
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    i tried this just to give it a shot.. needless to say i didnt go to 100% i only went to 80%.. funny lol at cruise it was only hitting 3* lol and of course idle was at -6 but i know how to fix that i was tryin it to see if the rest of my maps would have to be changed

    i guess it didnt like 80%
    2003 Ford excursion 6.0 PSD
    No limit intake
    Straight pipe
    Studded
    EGR delete
    KC billet single plane compressor wheel
    Self Tuned
    XDP Regulated return
    RDP Fuel sump
    AEM progressive water meth
    Custom suspension air bags
    8" lift
    35" tires

  6. #6
    It just shows you how limiting the torque table is. Takes about 10min of logging to fix the low load, low rpm dips. Fix idle first, then go take care of the surging and dips in first from a stop. You literally only need to drive 50-100 feet, stop, adjust, drive.

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    Everyone is a tuner because everyone can make a few changes to the WOT ranges and the car runs amazing. This is not me bashing I promise. My point here is this is where real tuning comes involved. Can you take something that wants 100% torque all the time and make it run smooth? How about set it up to run in the optimum range for your setup? Do you know how to change all of your tables to help compensate spool up time and have max performance while not having drastic changes? Amazing how everyone associates KR to timing tables yet multiple tables effect it.

    My point to all of this is this is where real tuning comes involved. The stock tables are horrible. Smoothness and the relationship between all of the tables is where you'll learn the most. If your car runs smoother then stock while demanding 100% all the time from all of the tables your on the right track.

    The RPM vs Gear torque table should be adjusted later down the road to accommodate the clutch and whatever other reasons you want less power in certain gears. With this being said keep in mind you are demanding 100% in all gears so DO NOT go blowing through 1st and 2nd gear. I highly recommend you tune it in 3rd. Once everything is dialed how you want then you can start dialing back to accommodate things like the clutch.

  8. #8
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    well i had planned on going back and learning more about this table its just hard for me since i work so much. only thing i cant really grasp is the PID tables for some odd reason im having trouble with those lol
    2003 Ford excursion 6.0 PSD
    No limit intake
    Straight pipe
    Studded
    EGR delete
    KC billet single plane compressor wheel
    Self Tuned
    XDP Regulated return
    RDP Fuel sump
    AEM progressive water meth
    Custom suspension air bags
    8" lift
    35" tires

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    Every time you drive you should be tuning something to learn. If you have timing dips then it needs to be raised. That is a general start point. As for the PID tables I can't really give much more info without just giving you tables to use. My recommendation is to look at how they set the stock table up and see what you can gather from that. Also do some research on how PID systems work and the different ways they are tuned. This won't give you any solid answers on tuning a cars PID system but it will let you some info on PID systems in general. I promise you that after you start understanding more that you'll go back and change tables you already had in place. If you have specific questions please ask and we can give hopefully a direct answer as opposed to vague answers like this.

  10. #10
    Advanced Tuner projectlnf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM173 View Post
    Every time you drive you should be tuning something to learn. If you have timing dips then it needs to be raised. That is a general start point. As for the PID tables I can't really give much more info without just giving you tables to use. My recommendation is to look at how they set the stock table up and see what you can gather from that. Also do some research on how PID systems work and the different ways they are tuned. This won't give you any solid answers on tuning a cars PID system but it will let you some info on PID systems in general. I promise you that after you start understanding more that you'll go back and change tables you already had in place. If you have specific questions please ask and we can give hopefully a direct answer as opposed to vague answers like this.

    only specific question is the pid tables are you going to set each one with a single number? or the deltas going to be different? like mine on intergl its all set at .600 for all deltas but my prop gain is ramped up?
    2003 Ford excursion 6.0 PSD
    No limit intake
    Straight pipe
    Studded
    EGR delete
    KC billet single plane compressor wheel
    Self Tuned
    XDP Regulated return
    RDP Fuel sump
    AEM progressive water meth
    Custom suspension air bags
    8" lift
    35" tires

  11. #11
    Advanced Tuner projectlnf's Avatar
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    and i have asked in other threads a while ago which i cant find right now but i have a boost drop. cruising through the gears it will drop from like 10 to 0 its weird i have a screen shotboost drop.jpg
    2003 Ford excursion 6.0 PSD
    No limit intake
    Straight pipe
    Studded
    EGR delete
    KC billet single plane compressor wheel
    Self Tuned
    XDP Regulated return
    RDP Fuel sump
    AEM progressive water meth
    Custom suspension air bags
    8" lift
    35" tires

  12. #12
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    Sorry I can't see the boost drop since I'm on my phone. I tried but it was hard to make things out. As for PID tables CodenameBill had luck with single numbers and he uses his tune for autocross. I don't use a single number but I also use mine for Drag Racing. That is not to say that one is better then the other. I'm merely saying we used different routes.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeM173 View Post
    Sorry I can't see the boost drop since I'm on my phone. I tried but it was hard to make things out. As for PID tables CodenameBill had luck with single numbers and he uses his tune for autocross. I don't use a single number but I also use mine for Drag Racing. That is not to say that one is better then the other. I'm merely saying we used different routes.
    after posting the picture i went back and looked at my tune and i think i might have found out what it was it was in optimum torque tables after 3000 they dropped by 3-5% so im hoping that works.. i like the way mine boosts now minus part throttle. but when go wot at 3000 it seems like its slow but i have raises the prop to 2.000 and it doesnt really change and if i take my deravitive down it spikes like crazy lol
    2003 Ford excursion 6.0 PSD
    No limit intake
    Straight pipe
    Studded
    EGR delete
    KC billet single plane compressor wheel
    Self Tuned
    XDP Regulated return
    RDP Fuel sump
    AEM progressive water meth
    Custom suspension air bags
    8" lift
    35" tires

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    You can't make big changes to the Prop table. Even a change of .1 is noticeable if it is set up correctly. As for derivative and integral try changing them to all 0's and adding them back in accordingly for the affects you want.

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    Also were getting off topic so if you have any more PID questions please post them there.

  16. #16
    I use mine for road racing. Also works well on my DD. I prefer single values only because it provides a linear response versus exponential in the pedal which is very important mid-corner on track.

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    Sorry Bill, I knew it was Road Racing. I don't know how that slipped.

  18. #18
    Advanced Tuner projectlnf's Avatar
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    allright im making another attempt at this this week so be prepared for questions and logs lol
    2003 Ford excursion 6.0 PSD
    No limit intake
    Straight pipe
    Studded
    EGR delete
    KC billet single plane compressor wheel
    Self Tuned
    XDP Regulated return
    RDP Fuel sump
    AEM progressive water meth
    Custom suspension air bags
    8" lift
    35" tires

  19. #19
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    Thank you for this post! I'm a HP Tuners tuning newbie/wannabe and have learned a lot since I bought HP Tuners in April. While I don't post much, I do read and make changes after I have somewhat of an understaning of the information you guys are posting and have made many changes to the tune that I purchased in late April from a reputable tuner.

    Living in a small town with no dyno within a 200 mile radius is the reason I went with the tuner I chose and while I was more than pleased with the tuners service and the way the car ran, I knew there was more to be had. The remote tuning process took a total of 2 weeks and roughly 30 different tune updates. Every time I would get an update, I would review the changes he made so that I would understand some of the process. It wasn't long before I knew what he was going to change after I sent him each log and while I'm still taking baby steps, I'm slowly making my way to a more powerful setup.

    In my Sky, I'm running the WR3 (EFR6758) turbo, Solo HF cat, Solo Mach exhaust, Werks intercooler and pipes, K&N drop in filter, 3 bar sensors and a Devil's Own injection system. It's an automatic and I added the injection system late in the tuning process since I wanted more out of the setup and the 91 octane fuel and 3700 feet altitude was limiting what could be done.

    Since reading the excellent informational posts from codename Bill Doe, MikeM173 and cobaltss overbooster (and others), I've made some of my own changes to quite a few tables (some of which were still stock) and have made quite a bit of difference in the way the car performs. Just wanted to let you guys know that I appreciate the information and look forward to learning more. Thanks again!

  20. #20
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    Jimmy, I'm glad we could help you out. Don't forget posting questions isn't just for you though. Everyone else will learn from them as well so don't hesitate to ask ever. Glad you have been able to figure things out on your own though.