First off, this isn't to get around paying the 2 credits for the 2 bar code, this is for those who don't have that option...
Regardless of how many bar a sensor is, its still 0-5v. So if a person could live with half the resolution on the MAP based tables (10kpa instead of 5), and doing without the boost enrich tables, is it possible to get at least a safe tune?
2.4L Twin Cam Cavalier Z24 | T3 Super 60 @ 9 PSI | FMIC | TurboXS RFL | Greddy Profec B Spec II | Custom HO Intake Manifold | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | HP Tuners | 5 Speed Swap | Team Green LSD | SPEC Stage 3 Clutch | Fidanza Short Shifter | Prothane Control Arm Bushings | Carbon Fiber Hood
No.
There are way too many tables and constants that we *don't* have access to that will be messed up by just adding a 2-bar sensor.
BTW: I tried to get a car to run with a 2 bar cal running a 1 bar sensor and it wouldn't even start even after halving the VE table. (I also did it the other way too... Same problem)
EC
Always Support Our Troops!
98 Camaro, M6, HPTuners, heads and cam
ectune were are you located? what is you shop name?
98 Camaro, M6, HPTuners, heads and cam
EC tune, You should have no problem putting a 2 bar sensor into a 98 on a 1 bar program. Its very simple. As for the car not running, that means the VE table is that far off. I went throug the same thing.
Rick
Anyone tried on a speed density based car. As opposed to a Maf based car with an upgrade?
LA Performance DivisionOriginally Posted by bmfcamaro
Yes you are correct that the resolution is halved. That in itself is enough reason (at least for me) not to do it. There really are a bunch of tables that would be offset incorrectly with just a 2-bar sensor replacement. The MAP is used as a Baro reading on startup. DFCO is MAP based as well as many other tables and constants that aren't reported. I can see your point if the MAF is maxed out (not too hard to do on a 98...) though.
I thought about hacking into the 98 manual trans code myself but Time, Energy, and Benefits are preventing that right now. A lot of Operating System code would have to be re-done.
I figure if Chris hasn't done a 98 (yet), I don't think I want to start right now. If there is enough interest (hundreds) it might happen.
EC
Always Support Our Troops!
So, it is possible, the cars in particular that I'm speaking of (LN2 from S10 and J-Bodies), along with some other V6 guys where we don't have a MAF sensor to worry about, there are still gains to be had by doing this.
I'll probably try it out myself, but I'll need to find a donor car to work with.
2.4L Twin Cam Cavalier Z24 | T3 Super 60 @ 9 PSI | FMIC | TurboXS RFL | Greddy Profec B Spec II | Custom HO Intake Manifold | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | HP Tuners | 5 Speed Swap | Team Green LSD | SPEC Stage 3 Clutch | Fidanza Short Shifter | Prothane Control Arm Bushings | Carbon Fiber Hood
EC Tune,
I'm sure you read my post on LS1tech, if you wouldn't use a 2 bar MAP sensor, then what should we do to tune my buddys car? I'm open to suggestions!
Rick,
Are you the one that Anthony has emailed you back and forth on this? If so, if you have the time, could you send a email to me as to what tables I should change, very much appreaciated! [email protected]
Bill
2001 Camaro SS M6 - 23,xxx Miles
Huron Speed AC Turbo AC Kit - 6.0L 9.4CR, LS3 Heads, 226 232 115 lsa cam, Turbonetics 7575 1.15 AR Turbo
10.98 @ 133 MPH on 9 lbs boost
Yes, that is me. I will sned you an email later and to him also.
EC Tune. I understand that other tables go along with it, but I do this for SD based turbo cars. Even though the resolution is halved, it still works great for the guys with different boost levels and the drivability has not changed in my opinion.
Rick
My whole theory is that even though the resolution is halved, the ECU will still interpolate between the two closest values...
2.4L Twin Cam Cavalier Z24 | T3 Super 60 @ 9 PSI | FMIC | TurboXS RFL | Greddy Profec B Spec II | Custom HO Intake Manifold | 2.5" Charge Pipes | 2.5" Downpipe | HP Tuners | 5 Speed Swap | Team Green LSD | SPEC Stage 3 Clutch | Fidanza Short Shifter | Prothane Control Arm Bushings | Carbon Fiber Hood
Absolutely. The math hasn't changed, just the operating points.
I may have to dig into this afterall...
(Hoping Chris & Ken can give me a kickstart though...)
EC
Always Support Our Troops!
the main issue is that every MAP value in the PCM needs to be rescaled by half. There are hundreds of them not shown in the editor. Many of them relate to diagnostics and other stuff but there are a lot that are for important stuff.
Chris...
I count sheep in hex...
Of course it will never be 100%, but its better than nothing.
Thanks Rick, looking forward to the info...
If that is the case, then why not offer 2 and/or 3 bar for the 98 PCM's?
What are the REAL reasons why HP Tuners won't offer a 2 bar for 98 cars?
Bill
2001 Camaro SS M6 - 23,xxx Miles
Huron Speed AC Turbo AC Kit - 6.0L 9.4CR, LS3 Heads, 226 232 115 lsa cam, Turbonetics 7575 1.15 AR Turbo
10.98 @ 133 MPH on 9 lbs boost
The 98's went through about a bizillion operating systems. Which one do you have...
If it was me, I would ONLY support the latest one for F&Y bodies AT/MT. Well, there's about 12-15 operating sytems that need 100's of changes each just for 98 2-bar. Now add in 3 bar, 1 bar enhanced... Lots and Lots of work...
EC
Always Support Our Troops!
we come in packs there are a lot of 98's out there. i would get the 1 bar sd enhanced if it was offered.
98 Camaro, M6, HPTuners, heads and cam
Lazy non 98 2-3 bar supporting MF'ers
Thanks Rick@synergy for helping me and my "LOWLY no good for nothing to the HPT team" 98 LS1 F body go 2 bar for my turbo set up.
Its been a ton of fun compared to the way we were tuning it with the maxed out maf, and drives great too. Like Rick said its not perfect, but its better than what was offered to us before.
J
98 Formula A4 |DIY'er Racing Turbo Set Up|9.1 comp Forged internal Block|ROCK ON Stage 4 4L60E|Vig3800|HPT/Synergymotorsports assisted Tune|
I tell ya... No gratitude from some people...Thanks Rick@synergy for helping me and my "LOWLY no good for nothing to the HPT team" 98 LS1 F body go 2 bar for my turbo set up.
Those cars are a bit of a handfull as every combination was a different operating system.
I have the Vettes documented for 97 & 98 and for just the *latest* operating sytems there are 7 total. That's a bare minimum of 100 changes to the individual operating sytems alone, not counting the additional tables that need to be added. And this will have to be done initially by hand. Lots of work indeed.
BTW: some of the latest operating systems have an ID of "0" from GM just to complicate things further...
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