NGK AFX vs. AEM 30-0300 CAN Comparison

[gmtech16450yz]

FWIW, I just checked my folder with my logs in it and I'm at over 500 logs with the pair of AEM 30-0300's. That's over 500 starts too since I only log once per drive. I let them warm up just about every single time I start the car because I log every start from before I even crank the engine. I don't doubt what you're saying Mike, but in practice SO FAR, I've yet to have a problem. And that doesn't include the few thousand logs from the PLX 4.2 and 4.9 sensors in that car, always warmed up before the engine starts.

OEM heaters turn on whenever the key is in the run position. If heating them up before the engine fires up was that big of a risk, I think there'd be a TON of narrowband and widebands dying in OEM applications. Narrowband and wideband failures in OEM situations is probably 1/100th what it used to be years ago. In the '80's and 90's I damn near wore out my O2 sensor sockets and wrenches. Now it's pretty rare to have a failed sensor on late model stuff.

[JBZ]

Six in one hand...half a dozen in the other

Ok so what should we do? Not trying to start a debate or anything. Honestly curious

Those sensors are not terribly expensive, but i still would not want to trash mine in short order.

[dr.mike]

The OEM engineers ( I know these guys ) trash hundreds of sensors every year, working out the ideal heater timing for each application.
They NEED to get the sensor operational as quickly as possible to get into closed-loop control fast for emissions compliance. So, it's a trade-off.

For aftermarket, it's better to delay sensor warm-up until the EGT has come up a bit. At least if sensor life it important. Depending on conditions, you could do hundreds of cold starts without damaging the sensor. Or, one.

BTW the standard analog control methods, used by just about everyone except AEM and Innovate can't really tell when a sensor has a cracked element, unless it is rendered completely inoperable.

Fortunately, the NB sensors are MUCH less fragile then the Bosch WBs.

[schpenxel]

I've just been starting and going, for whatever tiny sample size that is worth. Does PLX use Bosch sensors also? I used that one for over a year, just started it every day and went.. no issues. Same with AEM so far. Just start and go, I've warmed the sensor up a time or two when I was trying to figure out if it was going lean or rich during startup but that was about it. No issues so far.

[JBZ]

I would guess its more detrimental based on the area you live also and the time of year. here in Houston, when its 100* and my garage is 115* it probably doesn't matter...it really wont get a blast of cold air, however for folks up in the north during winter time cold it may be likely to break the ceramics. then if your like GMtech over in the bay area..the coldest winter is a summer in that city

[dr.mike]

is 115* it probably doesn't matter...it really wont get a blast of cold air,

"cold" is relative to the 1300F sensor element temperature In reality it is not a problem 99%+ of the time. But, if you ARE going to kill a sensor, that is usually how it happens.

[twistedpixels]

Well I got my replacement 30-0333 from Jegs and I think I will just return it and get something else or sell it. I have not even installed the replacement yet so they should take it back I guess. I am going to stick with my NGK since it seems to work just fine. I did find out that my Fuel pressure is dropping from 61-62 down below 50psi at wot so i need a BAP or a pump but i hate the pump options I have seen so far.

[GHuggins]

Squash or Fore Innovations I believe...

[twistedpixels]

Squash or Fore Innovations I believe...

Ya I have no interest in changing lines and rails etc. That is overkill for a head and cam car on e85 still. it just needs a little extra help. The walbro is fine but i dont like losing the siphon pump function either. No one seems to make a high volume drop in pump that needs no modification or allows the use of the siphon pump still that is not also requiring changing lines and rails and going to a return system.

[Inspiro]

For aftermarket, it's better to delay sensor warm-up until the EGT has come up a bit. At least if sensor life it important. Depending on conditions, you could do hundreds of cold starts without damaging the sensor. Or, one.

.

Is there a way to do this?

[dr.mike]

There is a command that you can send, over the CAN bus, to the 30-0300/30-0333 that will set a delayed warm-up time. But, somebody has to send it.
Most people seem to want the gauge to start displaying AFR ASAP. So, the default delay is the minimum, given by Bosch. I run mine with a 10-second start-up delay.