How critical is a wideband when tuning?

[IN10SE]

Hello from TX

I recently purchased a serial version of HPT, as that's what fit my budget at the moment. I have a 1999 Camaro SS A4 that I plan to use it for... although it's pretty much stock at the moment. I'm sure some improvements can be made to the stock tune though

Anyhow, back on track- I plan to eventually upgrade to the pro version and purchase a Innovate LM1 or LM2 wideband. It seems like a wideband is a critical component of "proper" tuning. In the mean time, I'm curious as to how limited my tuning capabilities will be WITHOUT a wideband? What kind of stuff can I do without one (other than gear changes, TM deletion, etc)?

I've got a lot to learn, but I enjoy this kind of stuff.. not to mention these forums appear to be a great resource with a lot of friendly people on them. I did purchase two books recently, so that should help me along the way. In addition, I can bring some assistance to the forums as I have experience in programming, scripting and Excel functions, etc - let me know if you need help or anything

Thanks for any advice

[truckguy]

You cant really do any wot fueling changes without a wideband. Also the amount of spark advance you can run is directly related to your a/f's so a/f/s have to be done first.

What you will be able to do without one is enable pe earlier, adjust trans settings, adjust for gear ratios, etc. I just personally wouldnt make any fuel changes without a good wideband.

[KLUG'S SS]

You can get your part throttle tuning dialed in some using fuel trims but without a wideband you are definately just going to be guessing as far as your wot tuning goes, which can be dangerous for your motor if you are going lean and dont realize it.

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

Also have to make sure your o2 sensors are relatively new and also good. Old/bad o2 sensors will give faulty data.

Might want to think twice about deleting TM though, I have not seen too many people do that without having tranny issues soon after lol

[eficalibrator]

Without a good wideband, you're just playing around. There are also a lot of other better choices than just the LM1/2 for affordable widebands.

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

There are also a lot of other better choices than just the LM1/2 for affordable widebands.

This is very true.

[KLUG'S SS]

This is very true.

Yes it is and definately do not buy an LC1! They are junk!!! Mine worked good for about 3 weeks

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

Ah yes, people think I am crazy for preaching against the LC1, if only more people would believe me lol

[IN10SE]

Also have to make sure your o2 sensors are relatively new and also good. Old/bad o2 sensors will give faulty data.

Might want to think twice about deleting TM though, I have not seen too many people do that without having tranny issues soon after lol

Interesting thought on the O2s... my car has really low mileage.. hopefully the stock ones are still good

As for the TM, I wouldn't completely delete it


Thanks though everyone, looks like I'll be getting a wideband ASAP!

eficalibrator - You have a PM!

[Xtreme4U2NV]

Ah yes, people think I am crazy for preaching against the LC1, if only more people would believe me lol

Between my friends and I, we have 13 LC-1's installed. No issues to date (some installed for over 2 years, some only 2 months). Are we to be considered a lucky 13?

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

I think so

[KLUG'S SS]

Yeah me too!!!!

[NHRA-TA]

Hey! Peeps

IN10SE i have a 02 trans am A4.It is a stock motor with high flow air lid, K&N air filter,SLP maf , SLP cold air kit and gutted cats. I took it to the track about to weeks ago and ran 12.95 at 107.7 in the 1/4. I tuned it myself with the help of the people on this form.Thank you everyone . I have the LC1 also and i'm taking it out and buying me the LM2 because it is portable.I don't need to look at my AF all the time ,plus the sensor last longer this way.

P.S. bone stock i ran 13.6

[destey]

If your wideband is off, you can cook your motor by running open loop SD. Make sure your wideband is accurate before relying on it.

I'd stay away from PLX devices. The one I got is off by quite a bit and the company won't respond to my emails.

[EC_Tune]

If your wideband is off, you can cook your motor by running open loop SD. Make sure your wideband is accurate before relying on it.

I'd stay away from PLX devices. The one I got is off by quite a bit and the company won't respond to my emails.

I will agree with you about them being off. They responded to my emails but I decided to just get a new wideband (dynojet) instead of repairing my PLX.

[Alvin]

I've noticed quite a few LC1 and LM1's off. When you read the LSU4.x datasheets its really not that bad of an idea to just rely on the calibration resistor. I'm not sure why innovative insist not to do this.

[destey]

I've noticed quite a few LC1 and LM1's off. When you read the LSU4.x datasheets its really not that bad of an idea to just rely on the calibration resistor. I'm not sure why innovative insist not to do this.

Calibration resistor? Care to educate a dummy?

[jdaniels]

My LC-1 never calibrated correctly from day 1, but I almost think that was a ground problem. It read accurately though (not sure how) if I cycled the power during a calibration. Finally it bit the dust when I switched to e85. 2 years of daily abuse, it looks like just the sensor. I picked one up from germanautoparts.com so we'll see how that works.

[346ci]

Without a good wideband, you're just playing around. There are also a lot of other better choices than just the LM1/2 for affordable widebands.

Which widebands would you recommend?

[eficalibrator]

As a professional engine calibrator, I use professional equipment. (Much the same way really good mechanics prefer Snap-On/MAC/Cornwell tools) My "normal" wideband is an ECM LambdaPRO. I easily admit that this is a bit of overkill (and overspending) for the casual tuner, but I'm a bit more than just an enthusiast who's playing around with his car for fun. The whole ECM line is basically the standard of the industry for professionals. Any good professional tuner should take a look at their line before deciding to rely upon some el-cheapo mass market crap.

If you're on a tighter budget, the NGK AFX is actually made by ECM and resold under the NGK name. It has a limited output range, but still very sufficient for casual tuning work. The electronics running the controller are based off the same architecture that runs their more expensive meters.