Erik, I sent you an email on what to adjust - at least I think it was you?
2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80
~Greg Huggins~
Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC
69 Chevelle 418" LS3, 11.25:1,PRC 260 heads, TSP 235/239, Longtubes, dual 3", 4L80, 3.42
2010 Corvette Grand Sport A6, Heartbeat blower, 78mm pulley/10% lower, Kooks Long Tubes, 224/232 blower cam, ID1050x's, ECS stage 1 fuel system, alkycontrol meth system
Any cliffs? Seems like gen 4, the limit table is our ticket now?
Just watch out on the limit table - it can be too low and cause fueling to stick rich or lean... I didn't go much under 1.25 for idle and cruise airflow ranges...
2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80
~Greg Huggins~
Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC
This thread really helped me get my O2s workin right since my header install- thanks to you guys workin through things.
I'm not running a blower (07 TBSS, LS3, kooks LTs, yank 3k, RPM LVL 6) but these changes woke my O2s up in the lower airflow closed loop modes.
I've performed multiple SD and MAF only narrowband tuning sessions then re-enabling both for VVE prior to changing my O2 prop stuff, my O2s are much peppier now and it does seem to react faster on tip in and it does stablize much faster where it should (+/- 1-3 LTFT between banks and max of +/- 3 LTFT from zero). I didn't have any issues with mismatched banks before hand or LTFTs hanging rich or lean, but these changes helped fix my lazy O2 LTFT behavior below 2k rpm.
Since I don't have a wideband yet, I didn't change my narrowband rich lean switch points, my previous experience with 88-98 chevy trucks has shown that this really doesn't do much (had a zeitronix zt-2 wideband way back when), but maybe it will with the GEN 4 computers. I'm gonna get a wideband and see what AFR is displayed when the computer thinks its hittin 14.7, 0.0 on LTFT according to 450mv and then maybe adjust as necessary. Since E10 stoich is 14.1, I wonder if GM accounted for that, maybe not, maybe so.
I use the aeroforce gauge for monitoring LTFTs while driving, great tool. recommend that one
Last edited by bmd2_colo; 02-17-2019 at 10:38 AM.
I also want to take a minute to say thanks to JBZ for figuring all of this out. (Also to GHuggins, schpenxel, gmorris, Michael_D, and others that contributed and helped along the way.) This thread was a great read and I really appreciate all the time that you guys put into this.
I had guessed/iterated at tuning these with multipliers and got fairly close with my SW headers, but after spending some effort applying the things JBZ learned, I got it even better. I attached before and after pictures with both idle and low-rpm/low-flow cruise to show the differences. The O2 swings got tighter and more consistent. I also shifted the average down a little with the switch points.
One thing I'll add that's relevant to this thread for anyone working through this stuff: make sure you get rid of rich coast-down as shown in the last picture by forcing it into the idle LTFT cells, and keeping it the hell out of FTC 15. This is accomplished by raising the LTFT Idle Cells Thresholds to speeds higher than you'll ever see- e.g., just pump 'em up over 200 or 300 or something, while keeping Enable VSS less than Disable VSS. This was just one last thing that bothered me that needed fixed.
Thanks again JBZ!!
So is it a bad idea to set the O2 sensor limit to 0? I have mine at 0 and so far it runs well but I noticed the O2 switching slowed down. I'll post my tune/log when I get my laptop charged but from what I saw my fueling only showed 1-3% rich.
Car is a 2010 Camaro SS LS3. Intake, headers, highflow cats, and flex fuel equipped. I'm just trying other o2 settings out to see if it'll improve mpgs. I have it dialed in well with VVE, MAF, and WOT done.
Last edited by xc_SS/RS; 09-06-2019 at 11:54 AM.
with the limit zero it wont correct for the 02 switching as fast as it may need to, its the same as setting your idle proportional corrections to zero, it may still work just not as fast or good as it should
Thanks to everyone in provided input into this thread. I have been chasing random off IDLE KR for roughly a month and incorporating the techniques from this thread resolved a lot of my issues and now.
Car Setup:
- Drysump Manual LS3 in Grandsport
- Stock Airbox with Attack Blue Filter
- Stock Intake & Throttle Body
- AFe 1-7/8" TRI-Y header with cats
- Stock NPP Exhaust
- Upgraded Cam (below specs)
Upgraded Cam Profile:
Duration: 216/224
Lift: 0.553?/0.553?
LSA: 117* +4 advance
Overlap: -14
For those that are interested here are my O2 setting I'm going with for right now.
Current Tune I'm testing out -->> Build -- O2_dev8.02.hpt
Last edited by truth.b; 09-24-2019 at 01:48 PM.
Great information. thanks to everyone
After reading through these 12 pages, I was hoping this would have been answered. Has a specific workflow been established to return O2 behavior to factory behavior after performance modifications? I have Banish's two books, his beginner DVD, and books from Maslic and LaSota. I recently bought the 350 page Throttle Up PDF; they supposedly bought the rights to all of Ed Mowton's research. This PDF does describe the tables, but in general only says to correct those tables for the increased O2 distance.
Do we have a step-by-step guide? In what order to adjust the Gen3 & Gen4 tables? How do we specifically determine how much to adjust the cells in each of those tables? What symptoms do we monitor to know that those values are incorrect and how to further optimize them?
i was wondering the same exact thing. ANYONE?
same here....or are people just using the data from JBZ and/or truth.b and leaving it alone?
~Ryan
Charleston, SC
I know mine is Gen3, but both Gen3 & Gen4 are being discussed in this thread. Here's a log from my drive to work this morning, my current tune, and the factory tune. Do I need to log anything else to dial in the O2 sensor relocation tuning? What can be improved and what are the specific steps to do that?
I've been lurking on this thread for a while and trying to follow the progression of what factors into the closed loop operation of the engine. I'm still a bit confused about the PID controls, and what tables to edit in order to reach a desired outcome. I glanced at the papers one user posted links to a few pages back, where it outlines the principles behind the transfer functions used.
From what I understand, the transfer function takes in a raw lambda signal, then applies a proportional derivative and integration transform to the signal and checks the output against a set value, then feeds that back into the function to work towards the desired signal.
What I'm trying to understand is situational applications, since I've been messing with these tables on my truck since installing long tubes and I have been getting p0133 & p0153 (O2 sensor insufficient response time) errors. Knowing that my o2 sensors are brand new and that I don't have any exhaust leaks, my research has led me here. When logging on VCM scanner, I notice that my bank 1 O2 sensors seem to hang high (rich) then have a nice smooth switching at the trough of the wave form. Looks kind of like this (obviously smoother, though) _,----._,----._ etc.
I have tried some suggestions here but I am wondering what could cause these sensors to hunt and maintain a richer signal than being balanced and switching like: _,--._,--._,--._
Is there a set of tables I could check?
My truck is a '99 Z71 5.3 P01 with an '02 12212156. I used the comparison summary to copy over virtually all my stock '99 tune engine tables except for the cranking (fuel/air/spark) tables. I also noticed that with the '02 OL/CL tables, the truck would set the p0133 & p0153 codes, but not with the '99 settings, so I know those codes are related to the PID scheme the computer is using doesn't see the o2 sensors the same way my '99 stock tune did.
Sorry if this is confusing, please bear with me!
Hi
I installed long tubes on LS2 corvette (6.0L).
I installed a harness extensions because the wires were to short, and something is not right. I checked with VCM, that the LTFT and STFT works pretty fine, the voltage is oscilating, but.... when I checked with my wideband, it turned out, the AFR is around 16. The narrow bands are oscilating to keep the afr around 16 which is extremely lean.
I thoungt maybe it is the reason of the harness extensions, because the voltage is lower due to longer harness and I tried to lower the switching voltage, by 100mV on and on down to 150mV, but with no success. THe narrowbands still keep oscilating and keeping the fueling to hold 16AFR.
Any idea what is the reason for that?
Last edited by lambda1; 02-04-2023 at 05:37 PM.
Make sure your wideband is right for one. O2 age will effect it too. Integrator needs to be increased to represent the further distance and then lower prop limit some.
2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80
~Greg Huggins~
Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC