LSJ: Impossible to tune the VE Table with 60p injectors?

[jrsmith]

I basically can't get the VE table leaned out enough in the low rpm/airflow areas. I've been following the tuning school's method by logging the ltft's & then doing the paste percentage into the tune.

I've done the paste percent about 15 times but it doesn't change anything, still too damn rich!!

Also i'm getting some really weird surging issues.

I'm attaching a tune, a log, another tune where I did the paste percent, and then a final log that shows no changes. Also including my graphs setup.

I also opened a ticket with the tuning school but they haven't been that helpful as of yet.

2018-06-04 tuning with ltft 17.hpt 2018-06-04.hpt Joel.Graphs.xml ve tuning 19.hpl ve tuning 20.hpl

[cobaltssoverbooster]

dont set the maf codes to NER. these should be set to MIL on First.
you want the ecu to trigger the maf codes as soon as possible so it disregards the circuit. by choosing NER it still can read the circuit as a reference and just ignores the channel for code processing.
also change your P0101 code thresholds back to stock or something that includes the range the engine will be running in at all times. like i said, you want the test to fail so the thresholds must allow the test to run in the first place.
I dont know if thats the issue but it is the proper way to disable the maf. If you dont want to see the CEL light then uncheck the SES box for those codes.

there has to be an issue in regards to running the ve table in straight SD. if you adjust the VE values and it doesnt produce a new result then you need to double check your activation thresholds; which in your file seem to be set up properly for CL SD. You should also check your scanner channels to make sure they are functioning properly. Sometimes its the difference between selecting general channel vs. specific channel.

[ZeroBoostBuick]

Tune the MAF.

[jrsmith]

I adjusted those MIL codes but of course that won't do anything because i've tuned in the higher airflow part of the table just fine. It's just that modifying the values does fuck all in the top left area. I'm attaching two screenshots. They both show basically the same in the log but there is an order of magnitude difference in the numbers.


This is what 20 tunes did:
fuck this1.PNGfuck this 2.PNG

[cobaltssoverbooster]

Alright, that clarifies things for me. I though it flat out wasn't responding.

Is this a ve table based on the modified map scale you were trying to work out?
Im wondering if the map scale is affecting the accuracy of a trim as it changes the density calculation.

[jrsmith]

No, i'm using the stock map sensor & slope...no point in adding complexity until I can get it properly tuned in the stock configuration.

[cobaltssoverbooster]

not going to solve this issue but 10* advance is low. try bumping that up at idle and making the main spark tables agree with the idle tables.
i have a slightly different short pulse than you. yours seem to be significantly higher. your flow rates are different as well. my offset is identical to yours.

you may have a short pulse issue going on as anything lower than 1.1ms will fall in the short pulse. at idle your .9ms so it has effect there. if i remember correctly some people had issues with short pulse and ended up setting SP to 0 all the way through to disable it. on 80's it was critical but the 60's i think were on the threshold where some needed SP and some didn't.


fwiw heres what i used on the last set of 60's

[jrsmith]

Thanks for that file. I was on facebook yesterday & someone sent me another tune for 60p injectors. It came pre-scaled so I just pasted in the injector data, ve & spark table & surprise surprise it's working absolutely perfect...driving beautifully & ltft tuning seems to be working.

One thing though about the flow rate vs. multiplier vs. volts...I see you're tune is using the 1.3 multiplier, but I see this other tune (made by a reputable tuner) is only using the 1.0 multiplier to set up the injectors. Does 1.3 actually get around the 63.5 lb/hr limitation or what? Too much damn confusion around what values to actually use!!

[cobaltssoverbooster]

so the multiplier takes the flow rate value and multiplies it to get the correct flow rating. because as you saw you are capped to 63 ish in flow that means a value of say 70 would basically read as the 63 flow cap. to get around that take your injector flow and divide it by the multiplier value. the new values it gives you become your flow rate values and the multiplier gets modified from stock to what you used to find your new values. in my case 1.3.

i picked 1.3 because the file you posted had that and i was inspecting the injector value differences.

[jrsmith]

Thanks. Can you go over why spark & ve tables need to be scaled when switching fuel injectors?

[TCSS07]

Nothing should have to be scaled from an injector change except tuning fuel trims and wot fueling - unless you did the map scaling - otherwise it should be fine and using the modifier you'll read higher on the airmass scale for spark so watch for knock if you were using a modifier of 1 before

heres the LSJ injector speadsheet
The tune (fuel injector data were made from SJSchafer) different numbers but they work also
Attachment 80725
Attachment 80726