13 ctsv surge tune help

[c55asleep]

Who tuned this thing? PM me if you don't want to post it.. just curious.

Is it that crappy?

[gmtech16450yz]

Is it that crappy?

Didn't you email that tune to me awhile back? If it's the same one, yeah, it's that crappy! I think my advice was to not drive the car until you got a better tune? Either that or I'm thinking of somebody else.

[schpenxel]

Is it that crappy?

I mean, I've seen worse...

[Karch]

I'm sure you can figure it out Karch lol... Rather keep it like this for now...

Yeah, I think so.

As a side note, I sell and specify flow meters for a living, and some people just flat out don't understand that changing pipe diameter changes not only the scale, but the usable range.
Accuracy drops off substantially at low flows, and, furthermore, MAF sensor placement has a big effect.
Not only orientation but also upstream and downstream bends, locations, and whether or not they are in plane or out of plane.

[c55asleep]

Didn't you email that tune to me awhile back? If it's the same one, yeah, it's that crappy! I think my advice was to not drive the car until you got a better tune? Either that or I'm thinking of somebody else.

Yes John, that's me. I've used the car a couple of times and short pulls trying to dial it in some before choosing another tuner. Kinda hurts to dish out $600 for no reason or to get something subpar to what you were expecting. After this you get cautious of who to give the car next too

[gmtech16450yz]

Yes John, that's me. I've used the car a couple of times and short pulls trying to dial it in some before choosing another tuner. Kinda hurts to dish out $600 for no reason or to get something subpar to what you were expecting. After this you get cautious of who to give the car next too

I truly feel for you guys. That's why I get so upset when I hear about a tune caused engine failure or see a horrible tune. These guys take money, sometimes a lot of money, give you a tune and then walk away. There's no regulations, laws, guidelines or watchdogs for this "trade". For the most part, these guys aren't even licensed. They're dealing with cash too so how much of that income is ever reported? And on top of all that, they're breaking smog laws left and right. It's no wonder you end up with unscrupulous characters doing dishonest things. It's like trying to find an ethical drug dealer!

I'm not lumping everyone in there of course, there are good guys running actual businesses and doing good, ethical work. There's just a few that make the rest look bad when they take good money for a tune that ends up destroying a very expensive engine. -rant over.

Yeah Karch you're right, MAF placement is huge. I had a truck come in my dealership years ago that the guy had taken to several other shops/techs trying to fix a driveability issue. After looking at the mixtures and maf readings I questioned the maf itself. It had been replaced already though. So I open the hood and look at it. It was rotated about 120 degrees from where it was supposed to be lined up. (Older black plastic tube style maf in a Gen 3 engine) I rotated the maf to where it was supposed to be and the mixtures came right back in line. Pretty cool.

We also saw a lot of maf placement issues on the LNF's, especially when changing to a blow-through setup. The depth of the mounting block/maf sensor made a big difference in readings and accuracy. Putting the maf on the pressurized side of the turbo meant the tubing diameter was smaller than the intake where the maf was stock. Big changes had to be made in the tune to get the maf readings back in line because of the smaller diameter pipe it was in.

Another thing I learned is that the airflow in the center of the tube vs the sides is different even in a perfectly straight piece of pipe. For me when I was fabbing up an intake or turbo piping it helped to imagine the tubing like a water slide. Picturing the airflow going through the pipe like it was water might not be totally accurate from an engineers perspective, but it helped show me where the high flow and low flow areas might be. (I'm no engineer!) Does that sound at all right from the knowledge you have in your business experience?

[c55asleep]

It's got a new era 4.5 intake along with a nw102tb. The snout is port matched as well.

[GHuggins]

Hey now - I don't mind getting rid of me some cats I do however try to go above and beyond in getting a tune right and doing right by my customers I would have fixed this issue no questions asked even if I had to eat an entire retune - but that's me...

[c55asleep]

I did reach out to the tuner and told him it was still doing it. It actually did it while him driving the day he was tuning it. Again he blamed it on the maf and the lower panel that I hadn't installed. He said once you install the panel it should go away. Well, panel installed drove it some and it was still doing it. He knows exactly what it's doing. I told him I wasn't able to go to the event this past weekend cause I didn't feel I should be running it like that. I sent him a log of the surge and said he'll get back to me. I know he won't get back to me cause he couldn't get it corrected the day he dynoed it and we went for a spin.

[Karch]

Yes John.

I try to explain by pretending your a molecule of water, and how would you travel inside.

It's especially useful with gas entrained in liquid, which is difficult to maintain 0.1% accuracy over a wide range, but with proper techniques and little 'tricks', you can get really close and repeatable.

Tougher still is liquid in gas, like mist, and the worst is varying amounts of gases and liquid ratios, just not possible, and I advise customers as such.

[Area47]

Hey now - I don't mind getting rid of me some cats I do however try to go above and beyond in getting a tune right and doing right by my customers I would have fixed this issue no questions asked even if I had to eat an entire retune - but that's me...

oddly enough, the v's i have done i have personally had for no less than a week with them to make sure they drive like they should and no stupid crap happens. coincidentally enough, they have all been retunes from people.

[GHuggins]

oddly enough, the v's i have done i have personally had for no less than a week with them to make sure they drive like they should and no stupid crap happens. coincidentally enough, they have all been retunes from people.

I've found more and more - even from some on here - that things that should be tuned - aren't touched and things are done very rapidly to say the least... I average about 2 days per in depth tune... More than that lots of times and then basics are in and out in a day or less (talking about minor basics - cai for example) - I don't believe in the slap in and go tunes...

[c55asleep]

Fwiw table 12314 had the wrong data. Someone caught that and told me. I checked my file and I had input it correctly from ID website. The tuner must of jacked that up as well. Not sure how much it influences but it was wrong.

[GHuggins]

short pulse adder can effect deceleration fueling, but it will also effect idle and cruise fueling as well... Even if this was wrong - if the tuner had bothered to dial in other important tables - It should not have had this problem...

[GHuggins]

Here's a new set of channels for you to use - this one has fuel pressure and what not in it - whenever you want to do another log that is... Sounds like you need more or less a full re-tune though...

[Area47]

I've found more and more - even from some on here - that things that should be tuned - aren't touched and things are done very rapidly to say the least... I average about 2 days per in depth tune... More than that lots of times and then basics are in and out in a day or less (talking about minor basics - cai for example) - I don't believe in the slap in and go tunes...

me being me, i am super picky about the cars that are left with me that come from other people who fingered the tunes in them. it's not done till i am happy with it and it passes the "wife" test. {i scared her in a ctsv, that she thought would make a nice family car as it drove super smooth and tame, till i lite the tires at 90mph. needless to say i can have one for a while}

surging issues come from a number of things, and can be quickly narrowed down to either a fueling, or timing issue in 90% of cases. not enough, or too much.

[mbray01]

My favorite is the guy that comes in and says i've been driving my car like this(dying at every red light) for two years because the tuner said the cam is too big for the converter. lol

[GHuggins]

That's OK. I had a guy by yesterday with a Toyota Tacoma wondering if we would mind listening to the noise his truck was making. Horrible timing chain and tensioner rattle present. Checked the oil - he was told it was full 5 days ago by his mechanic. Nothing. 3.5 qrts later. No more engine noises. He was driving it like that for 5 days? Don't think this particular engine holds much more than that either.

Anyways.

[mbray01]

apparently incompetence is contagious

[c55asleep]

I just went with other tuner. The other tuner hasn't even replied from my text and call from last week. I went with Justin white this time. Seen some good stuff. So far feels better already.