If, after disconnecting the maf, the vehicle starts & runs you are in speed density mode.
If, after disconnecting the maf, the vehicle starts & runs you are in speed density mode.
It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...
A wise man once said "google it"
I emailed tech support and this is the answer I got:
"If, after, disconnecting the maf your vehicle starts then you are in speed density mode."
Sounds like I'm good to go!
1998 Trans Am
5.3 | E85 | S476r | Powerglide | 8.8 | 3660 lbs
Personal Best - 10s @ 142 mph - 8120 DA
Haha thanks Bill! I just posted your answerOriginally Posted by Bill@HPTuners
1998 Trans Am
5.3 | E85 | S476r | Powerglide | 8.8 | 3660 lbs
Personal Best - 10s @ 142 mph - 8120 DA
I might try unplugging my MAF as well. My problem even after bumping it with your is that my 15-25 kPa is extremely rich. I know i have the MAF failed correctly but who knows, the fact its there may cause problems. Does any body believe having no back pressure may also cause extremely lean conditions at low to no throttle? I know on decel I can tune to 14.68, I can tune as long as I have a load, but all no loads/light load/light negative load is 18+ even having the ve set at 100%. Nothing seems to be making a difference. Don't remember having this major issue when my turbo was still hooked up but since then I have made many adjustments to my injectors trying to perfect the data.
Thanks,
-Kyle
...but I did have the MAF disconnected since the piping was for the turbo and now using the n/a intake. Lol I hope this fixes it. I'll repost when I have my result.
Sorry lt1ray, im not sure i know what your asking about, but was looking in your DTC for MAF and saw that it didn't have the SES checked, again im not sure this is or you have already tried but yeah .. noticed it wasn't checked .. peace
Oh nvm, sorry i just woke up, ha, you had said it doesn't throw any DTC's in the scanner.. ha much less on the dash SES as i thought. i was just thinking about when i failed my MAF for the first time, i didn't see any DTC's but got it confused with SES, i saw DTC's just no SES, and that was why because i didn't have the SES checked lol maybe i should drank coffee before i start replying to posts. opps
Last edited by Monty; 02-14-2013 at 08:07 PM.
So I disconnected my maf last night and drove it to work this morning...no difference. Everything above 25 kPa is great. I feel like its either injectors or map resolution. I can change minor throttle and have it change on 20 and 25 kPa rows with major variations to AFR error...FYI its on a no load condition that causes my major error to happen. Because at 25 kPa with a load it almost goes to stoich. Is this the same with you lt1ray? Maybe time to mess with pulse adders or increase my min pulse width above. 805. Dangerously lean even at low to no throttle. Can't have it be there all the time.
I'll keep you guys updated to see if I increase my min pulse to. 9 if it helps.
-Kyle
Last edited by chevyalltheway; 02-15-2013 at 08:02 AM. Reason: clarification
Sounds like injector data is causing you some low pulse woes.
James Short - [email protected]
Located in Central Kentucky
ShorTuning
2020 Camaro 2SS | BTR 230 | GPI CNC Heads | MSD Intake | Rotofab | 2" LT's | Flex Fuel | 638rwhp / 540rwtq
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Well I increased my min pw to 1.1 and it got better idling so then I put it to 1.2 and I had it idling stoich. But driving sucks now because it idles at 1500 RPMs while the car is in motion and now it wants to run rich as hell here and there. Definitely making progress. I'll mess with the min a little more then start working on the spa.
-Kyle
Update for now. Car runs like crap so this is where I am at. My injectors flow at 663 cc/min @ 43.5psi. This was measured data from FIC. My rail pressure is ~60psi. I made an adjustment specific to my car instead of attempting to get generic SD60 data. From there I have researched some more and stumbled on someone that got theirs flow tested and recieved a short pulse adder graph as a result of the test. I don't know the variables that led to the graph but for now I am assuming it was correct for "my_bd" injectors and they will serve as a good comparison Injector for now.
I will throw this tune in tomorrow and see where it leads me. As of right now I still have lean idle at times and extremely rich decel, every time, in the mid 10's. Also occasionally I do get a lean spike on light throttle. This was better then when my min PW and default PW was at .805 and had a major lean on light throttle.
References:
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...=14101&page=12
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17962
Last edited by chevyalltheway; 02-17-2013 at 04:16 AM.
Haha no worries.
Well it almost sounds like your having the same problem I am now. I really think my problem is IAT sensor heat soak. From a cold start the car idles around 17-18 afr, then it jumps up to low 14's for about 10-15 seconds, and once its warmed up it idles at 10.6 afr. This is with a stock 99' VE table, timing, and start up tables. I'm also using 8 for the map offset and 208 for the linear value. Driving around it bounces in the 14 range, but once I come to a stop it starts to idle around 10.6 again.
It seems for idle tuning that the car cannot be idling for a long time or it will skew the data and cause the IAT sensor to heak soak. I believe this is what happened to me so I started over on my VE table yesterday. I had added a bunch to my VE table while at idle and thought I had it running pretty good. Then I went to drive it and the first light I got to it started running rough and the afr was around 11.
I'm going to try tuning the VE table again once I get it warmed up, but I hate how the car idles around 17 afr on a cold start. If I pull some from the VE table once at warm idle (coming from a stop after driving) I think it will make my lean cold start even worse.
Here's a good thread on it: http://ls1tech.com/forums/pcm-diagno...-iat-lean.html
I have the same set of injectors from FIC (their flow matched 60's at 3 bar). You should try my injector data and see if it helps. I know that part of the tune is good.
At this point for me I kind of want to go back to using the maf. The turbo isn't on the car yet, and I know it will max out at 7 psi or so but I feel like actually measuring airflow is better than assuming.
1998 Trans Am
5.3 | E85 | S476r | Powerglide | 8.8 | 3660 lbs
Personal Best - 10s @ 142 mph - 8120 DA
I'll have to try your data and see what change it makes. The reason I changed my data because at one point I was using greg banish's data but it went from always rich to always lean. Prior to min pulse width at. 8 I could never get idle down at all. After Greg's data I could never richen idle. So I adjusted my IFR to match my 663 cc/min @ 43.5 paid and my 60 psi fuel pressure so I know that my data is specific for my car and my injectors.
As far as cold starts are concerned, I'm more concerned about running temp because its where the car is most of the time. I'll look at your tune but have you adjusted your open loop fuel adder yet? Its under the closed loop open loop tab on the top left. I made mine try to run at 12.5 or 13:1 afr until it gets close to 120° ECT. But mine idles at like 14.5. There is an error there lol but it makes cold driving better, cars like rich at cold ECT's. Also an important one is to make your cells at operating temp 1 or your commanded will be rich since none of mine were at one in the same open loop fuel adder table.
I do pay attetion to my IAT but it doesn't seem to cause me major problems unless it idles for an extended period of time, relocation isn't a bad idea though but I want to be able it just swap it back to the charge pipe when I install the turbo back.
Once I get some driving done on my new SPA adjustment I will try your data and see what is working better.
Good luck,
-Kyle
Last edited by chevyalltheway; 02-17-2013 at 03:32 PM.
Its been a little while since I have updated this. I have made some positive progress but still nothing that is guaranteed to work. I will be installing my stock injectors back on and tune the crap out of my VE table and then come back to this once I know my VE is where it is supposed to be. Sorry to all that was hoping to gain something from my input.
Right now the issue is around 30-35kpa(which I have made some map calibrations so my map readings are a little different then they used to, 20-25 kpa was the old problem)I cannot get it to hit anywhere near stoich. I was able to make it stop being lean in those rows by adding 20% to my VE in the RTT but it also ran rich quite a bit...maybe a small over compensation but once I added the 20% on 30-35kpa from 800-2000 it made a big difference.
Note: My PW varied in those vary cells between 1.6ms - 1.8 ms I believe. If you don't know I believe that that is a big difference in PW for minor throttle variations in the same VE cell. All other cells do not vary this much, maybe just a .1 at most.
Note: These are the cells between my car accelerating, cruising, and decelerating. Other cells are primarily accelerating or decelerating.
Note: I'm not saying my map is perfect, for all I know it's causing the problem in those specific cells...map resolution maybe.
If you have any questions I'll answer them as I see them but until I get my old injectors in and get a good tune I cannot fully tune these injectors until I know the rest of my tune is good.
Good luck,
-Kyle
I have a feeling that my problem is the 60 lb SD shorty injectors that I have. I also have purchased the Banish DVD a while ago and have all of the "appropriate" data...which doesn't seem to be doing me any good.
I have read of similar problems that were solved by getting rid of the SD's and going with Injector Dynamics injectors that come with good data...at a cost of $1k.
One thing I don't understand about this forum...everyone tells you your data is incorrect, you go about obtaining this the best you can (purchasing the "known good" data), and it's still wrong.
Last edited by 1156248781; 02-21-2013 at 07:34 PM.
Lol I feel ya. I have used banish's data as well with major lean problems. Like I said I will get my the rest of my tune right and then come back to the Deka's. If you can do the same or still have good data prior to the injectors then maybe all you need to do is some trial and error. Read one of the threads I posted on tuning the injectors.
My car runs good until I'm at idle or around 30-35 kpa. I'll update this thread when I have good data but I will switch injectors this weekend. Dial my tune in right. Then switch back next weekend.
-Kyle
I haven't messed with my car much as I've been out of town the past few weeks for work. Right before I left I did work on it and I tried moving the IAT sensor. With the sensor moved the car idled much better. Hopefully I can get some tuning done in the next few weeks.
1998 Trans Am
5.3 | E85 | S476r | Powerglide | 8.8 | 3660 lbs
Personal Best - 10s @ 142 mph - 8120 DA
Getting rid of the big injectors made my world so much better. All my fuel trims went to ±2%. Absolutely amazing. I have just put E-85 so after I am done tuning that I will install my Siemens back in. One thing I have noticed is yes the IAT location gets heat soaked but its not that bad. After about a 10 degree temp increase is only like .5 point afr increase at most and then it goes back down after a little driving. I believe the injectors are the issue here. Greg banish's data does not work, at least not with my car. I'm hoping with the larger fuel consumption with the E-85 that my Siemens will act better.
Just my 2¢,
-Kyle
Just to reiterate the problems here, lt1ray. You have a lean idle issue right? I don't think you specified that its only lean after idling for an extended period. If that was the issue I can see the relocation fixed your issue but if not then I see the issue being the injectors. Do you remember the car acting weird after the injector install?
My problem was that I had the car idling rich or lean all the time depending on my injector settings. Greg's data alone was about 11:1 AFR. After adjusting my min fuel milligrams it improved but rarely would I idle stoich. These problems were about 20-30kPa map readings.
After I got rid of my injectors I had good afr at idle and all above. My injectors are still rich on decel at about 20kPa or less. But light throttle and idle is just fine.
Lemme know if I am on the right track.
-Kyle
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