engine swap w/ truck norris 218/224 108 lsa

[MPTA]

i spent a couple days tryin to get idle without drivability issues

engine and pcm is from 04' yukon denali 6.0l. 317 heads
i rebuilt it .020 over
started with a texas speed truck cam "212/218 on a 112" and the adaptive idle was able to control that cam fine. i didnt tune it and ended up grenading a china lifter and wiping a lobe. truck ran really good even on 7.5 cylinders :)
got it all cleaned up now, new lifters and truck norris cam. vitals are good, holds 96% all cylinders on leakdown test.

MY QUESTION.
STARTING FROM SQUARE ONE ON OEM TUNE
WHAT ADJUSTMENTS COME FIRST.

its gen 3 DBW
i wanna run both sd and maf.
spark tables are gross, all kinds of adder tables on the side and main tables have negative numbers from the factory to account for iat, afr, etc
idle spark tables dont match main tables. idle areas are 4? retarded from mains in idle areas.
this cam is zero overlap and around 14 degrees of added duration.
on factory tune it idles in park just fine with adaptives on and stalls into gear. i can force it to idle in gear and adaptives will take control. so its really not too far off just slightly from oem reset position. idle spark hunts around really bad with stock over and underspeed. i understand idle tuning procedure but i only have the capbility of tuning this thing on the road.

i ripped my wideband out of my other car and welded it in.

i have no dyno and no i wont bring it to a dyno.

i will attempt the steps necessary to get a base i can work with.

best i had it runnin so far was minus 5% ve from 0 to 800rpm

i have wideband in it now

LOG AND TUNE IS DOWN IN POST #7

I USED SUGGESTIONS FROM USER eXo3901

[Fast4.7]

Good luck getting help with that attitude! Kinda need to know what is in the tune to help and need data from a datalog as to how it is working on your engine via a datalog. I have some idle pointers and have tuned alot of Gen3 controllers. You really need to research Russ K and datalog his idle paramaters. Desired idle, throttle follower, throttle kicker, STIT and LTIT. Your idle speed, base idle airflow table needs adjustments as will the kicker and follower and likely startup and friction adders
. Your idle timing needs adjustments. Your over/under speed needs adjustments, I usually half them as a starting point on a larger than stock cam.. I always make main, p/n and drive tables all the same. For absolutely no reason ever do they need to be different. Most of the adder tables do not need to be touched.

My 218/228 on a 108 LSA cammed 383 has idled since the first startup tune that I scratched some numbers into for a better base point.

https://youtu.be/FzEDpuSIwJc

[MPTA]

sorry about atitude. thank you for the pointers fast 4.7

i tried the russ k steps but probably didnt do it correctly.

i think where i went wrong was not making the timing tables the same because it starts and idles fine but the erratic timing is whats really messin with my low speed airflow/fueling. i basically got mad and decided to start from scratch was best plan. i learned more about using vcm controls to lock afr and timing so i'll play with that some and hopefully it speeds things up

[eXo3901]

guidance on tuning is all im asking for.

Post a log showing your issues, if any, and post the corresponding tune used in said log. From that, guidance on tuning you will likely receive.

MY QUESTION.
STARTING FROM SQUARE ONE ON OEM TUNE
WHAT ADJUSTMENTS COME FIRST.

Did you change injectors, MAP, IAT, or any other sensors? Verify editable sensor data in the tune correctly reflects your hardware.
Verify cylinder volume correctly reflects the actual cylinder volume.
After that,
Temporarily disable LTFT.
Increase idle RPM by 200 RPM.
Add a few g/s to idle airflow.
Add a few g/s to the idle area of the MAF.
Lower cranking VE 10%.
Lower idle area VE 10%, smooth the boundaries.
Raise idle spark to 18-21
Cut over/under idle spark control by 50%
Try to start. Whether or not it runs at this point is up in the air. Unfortunately at this point, without a good log and matching tune to look at everyone who tries to help will be pissing into the wind.

[village_idiot]

i will not post a log and tune.


all suggestions are welcome but disclaimer i will beat the why? right out of you. so if you do comment, please post reason why doing this first is best practice. if i wasted your time your welcome. this is one member asking other members if they wanna play its okay.

^^^^ This will get you nowhere here. Post the tune file. Post a log of any issues you may have (or at least a log of it idling for a few mins), and most of us here are willing to help.

Almost none of us will blindly help. By blindly, I mean no data in front of us (tune file/logs).

BTW.... I tuned an 05 GMC Truck Norris yesterday, and am working on an 06 Chevy Truck Norris right now sitting in my bay. Just took a break to grab something to drink and catch up on the forum. They're fairly easy cams to get setup IMO

[Fast4.7]

^^^^ This will get you nowhere here. Post the tune file. Post a log of any issues you may have (or at least a log of it idling for a few mins), and most of us here are willing to help.

Almost none of us will blindly help. By blindly, I mean no data in front of us (tune file/logs).

BTW.... I tuned an 05 GMC Truck Norris yesterday, and am working on an 06 Chevy Truck Norris right now sitting in my bay. Just took a break to grab something to drink and catch up on the forum. They're fairly easy cams to get setup IMO

I just did a Stage1 earlier this week myself for a 2005 1500HD that was 100% stock other than the BTR Stage 1 low lift truck cam and a TBSS intake. Truck Norris is not much worse. I tuned a Stage3 high lift in a LQ9 a couple of weeks ago.

[Fast4.7]

Post a log showing your issues, if any, and post the corresponding tune used in said log. From that, guidance on tuning you will likely receive.


Did you change injectors, MAP, IAT, or any other sensors? Verify editable sensor data in the tune correctly reflects your hardware.
Verify cylinder volume correctly reflects the actual cylinder volume.
After that,
Temporarily disable LTFT.
Increase idle RPM by 200 RPM.
Add a few g/s to idle airflow.
Add a few g/s to the idle area of the MAF.
Lower cranking VE 10%.
Lower idle area VE 10%, smooth the boundaries.
Raise idle spark to 18-21
Cut over/under idle spark control by 50%
Try to start. Whether or not it runs at this point is up in the air. Unfortunately at this point, without a good log and matching tune to look at everyone who tries to help will be pissing into the wind.

Yep about the same thing here, except I find 22-24 at idle tends to work really well for me. I tend to set the smaller cams at 750 at idle. Larger ones approaching and over 226 intake like 800-850. Even bigger cams or smaller engines like a 232 in a 5.3 like as much as 950. It is easier to raise the idle a little beyond where it can idle once its dialed in so that it does not continuously stall out while driving around. My 383 van idles really well at 750 rpm with a 2,800 rpm converter. That stage 1 truck cam idled really well at 650 rpm with the stock converter.

In my startup tunes, I usually fail the MAF, leave LTFTs enabled and go straight for LTFT VE tuning.

[MPTA]

took your advice
here is log and tune with recomended adjustments.

its just an idle log in park.
i couldnt figure out how to erase ltit's
so i turned my fans off and basically logged idle desired and the ltits started dropping after their enable temp was met.
it definately cranked longer before firing but not terrible i guess.
beyond that it sounded a little advanced and racey or uppity. at least until it got over 200F and than it sounded a little more mellow.
i did reset ltft's and turned them off with vcm controls.
i also decided to leave MAF disabled so i could just see what the fuel trims on the Main VE were going to look like. I double checked DTC's and it was listed failed pending, current, and history.
I have to figure out why my wideband didnt log... it has been logging but i got a wild hair and disconnected my battery to see if the longterm idle trims would zero from my prior janky tuning and they did not.. and now my wideband still reads on the gauge but it didnt log. not one thing its another i guess.
ANYWAY, I APPRECIATE THE HELP YOU GUYS.
truck isnt freaking out nearly as bad as it was.
I dont know if i should adjust the main VE more or just keep adding air to the base airflow. tomorrow is another day.

[MPTA]

i got wideband logging again

[Fast4.7]

Will look at it later today. Tuning a Summit Stage 3 in a 6.0L swap today.

[dhoagland]

Am I reading this right?
MAF Fail 0hz
Dynamic Airflow High 200 rpm

[MPTA]

hmmm.. im pouring concrete here in a half hour. im not sure what i did wrong again... i'll look at it when i get home

thanks for looking

[eXo3901]

MAF is not failed. No DTC=MAF not failed.
Reduce the idle area MAF 12%, smooth the curve into the upper HZ areas. Also, reduce the idle area VE another ~5%, smooth the boundaries. Reflash and clear trims. STFT hopefully will lower to about -10%.
If that works out ok, then Set your MAF High RPM Disable to 8,000 rpm. Add MAF Status to your channels, remove all other MAF related channels. Keep dynamic airflow. Copy your high spark table to your low spark table. Reflash and clear trims. The MAF should fail, MIL should be on, and the scanner should show the DTC(s). It should be in SD at this point.

[dhoagland]

MAF is not failed. No DTC=MAF not failed.
Reduce the idle area MAF 12%, smooth the curve into the upper HZ areas. Also, reduce the idle area VE another ~5%, smooth the boundaries. Reflash and clear trims. STFT hopefully will lower to about -10%.
If that works out ok, then Set your MAF High RPM Disable to 8,000 rpm. Add MAF Status to your channels, remove all other MAF related channels. Keep dynamic airflow. Copy your high spark table to your low spark table. Reflash and clear trims. The MAF should fail, MIL should be on, and the scanner should show the DTC(s). It should be in SD at this point.

Are you looking at his latest file?

EDIT: I do see it doesnt throw the code in the log

[eXo3901]

I only see one file posted. Unless there was an edit I missed?

[MPTA]

thanks for the pointers.
i didnt know there was a maf status pid, that will help so much, i havent done this enough times to fluently disable maf and that part has always had me guessing whether or not the maf was actually disabled.

unfortunately didnt have enough time after work to play with the truck. i'll be working on truck all day tomorrow.

i swear i ran the dtc's with my scanner before i did that idle log and it said p0103 was pending, current, and history. while i was doing that log i was focusing on coolant temp and checking my tranny fluid.but hoaglund is definately right, it didnt populate trouble code on the log details. i'll be sure to remove all other maf channels exo3901

thank you

all goes well i'll be posting 2nd tune and log tomorrow a.m.

[MPTA]

I repolled parameters and there is NO MAF STATUS PID anywhere to be had.
not sure why eXo wanted me to first;

Add a few g/s to the idle area of the MAF

and now i should;

Reduce the idle area MAF 12%

im not going to make any adjustments to MAF yet because, the scan i posted, MY SCANNER SAID DTC P0103
MY CHARTS MAF VS FREQUENCY did register -100 for cells 3125 thru 4125hz.
if you can explain to me how you come up with -12% that would be excellent.
my assumption is the MAF was failed.

if somebody can elaborate i'll play along but im a quarter inch away from saying pi$s on it and putting all zeros in the maf table

[dhoagland]

I repolled parameters and there is NO MAF STATUS PID anywhere to be had.
not sure why eXo wanted me to first;

and now i should;


im not going to make any adjustments to MAF yet because, the scan i posted, MY SCANNER SAID DTC P0103
MY CHARTS MAF VS FREQUENCY did register -100 for cells 3125 thru 4125hz.
if you can explain to me how you come up with -12% that would be excellent.
my assumption is the MAF was failed.

if somebody can elaborate i'll play along but im a quarter inch away from saying pi$s on it and putting all zeros in the maf table

I seem to remember something about logs not keeping codes after saving...

Anyway
Can you fire it up and see if MAF fail code is current while logging?

I'll have to look at your tune, I believe you had SES checked. Do you get a check engine light?

[dhoagland]

Also
Did you fix this? Everyone I've seen sets this to 8000 Top 7900 Bottom when Tuning SD
Maybe it doesn't make a difference IF MAF is failed, just never seen it like this unless you are MAF ONLY...

[MPTA]

good catch, i was just coming back on here to correct myself. i thought i was failing it at 200rpm. im such an idiot.
i was just going to reflash a high value.
still workin on truck right now, battery got low from having key on all morning so its sitting on the charger.
getting nowhere fast.
seems like im the lucky one that always learns the hard way.
thanks for checking back in.
im sure i'll be needing more guidance on somethin here shortly