VE changes not working. Really need some help.

[bdoobie69]

Would appreciate anyones help. This is my second LS swap. I am just trying to dial in the VE at idle so I can make sure this is ready to tune. Starts up rich when cold and will run to full lean (19.0) at operating temp. I have the tune in Open Loop Speed Density to try and adjust the VE to dial in AFR. I can add 5, 10,....in the idle area and it doesn't change a thing. I can even adjust AFR in the VCM controls and nothing. I did everything I could in the tune to disable the MAF that I have read up on. Also pulled the Maf signal wire. I do get a P0102 code. No others. Pretty certain I have solid injector data. Could someone please look at my tune to make sure I didn't miss anything stupid. At wits end here. I have an AEM wide band hooked up in it as well.

2003 6.0
228/230 cam 5.3 heads
12613412 Gen iv injectors
92mm TB NNBS intake
P59 6106 pcm

4-29-22.hpt4-29-22.hpl

[5FDP]

Maybe need to cut the minimum fuel milligrams in the transient tab in by some if the idle is rich.

I'd check fuel pressure as well. And I hope the exhaust is complete too, otherwise the wideband will report bad data.

[bdoobie69]

Thanks for the input. The idle reads rich from cold because I left the OLFA table alone. It runs out to lean on warmup. Wideband reads fine from cold all the way up to warmup (about 100 deg) and runs out lean. I do have long tube headers and 3" exhaust all the way just before the rear end right now. I will double check fuel pressure. I do have a transducer wired in. Just need to set in up in the scanner. I have returnless fuel rail setup with the corvette fuel pressure regulator/filter installed. I have run it in closed loop with the maf enabled and the wideband read fine the whole time.

[blindsquirrel]

Uhm... corvette regulator/filter... what fuel pump? Those filter/regs are easily overpowered, with a big pump they can't return enough volume to the tank so pressure goes sky high.

[bdoobie69]

Did not know that. It is a walbro 255 in tank pump.

[bdoobie69]

I run the same setup in my other swap without issue.

[blindsquirrel]

Should be OK with a 255, still need to check it at the rail though. The return line will carry the most volume during the least fuel demand from the engine, so at key-on or at idle.

[bdoobie69]

Fuel pressure shows that I am 63 psi at the rails. That is with a cheap Amazon 100 psi transducer so the calibration for it could be off just a touch. Anyone know if it is an issue running the 7603 Os on a 6106 P59 pcm?

[bdoobie69]

So just reaching for any options. I put the tune back into closed loop and ran it down the road to see if I could start getting the O2's to respond and see if the wideband changes from lean. I really think it is actually lean as the wideband says because I was getting KR registering while running it. The O2 sensors show slow activity and show rich and are commanding the fueling lower. Anyone have experience with this? There is something temperature based happening when the wideband goes lean as well. I would appreciate anyones input on where to go from here. Attached is my closed loop run.
5-1-22 closed loop run.hpl
4-30-22 back to closed loop.hpt

[blindsquirrel]

Hard to be sure from a log that never goes over 10% throttle and 20 MPH, but definitely do not trust that WB data. No way is it really running at 18-19:1.

The B1 O2 is... not exactly slow, but it wakes up different than the B2. If you don't know how old they are and they're whatever was in the donor when you got it, I'd just replace them (Delco/NTK/Denso, NO BOSCH!) and verify that the heater circuits are functioning. That said, that does not mean that I think the NB readings are inaccurate, and that the one you should believe is the wideband.

Get new O2s, tune it in the normal driving/non-PE regions using LT+ST trims, then see if that WB still thinks it's lean. You can filter out idle/decel and WOT/PE-OL from your FT graphs.


Did you change the platform to GMT800 or was it always like that? '03 Savana 3500 should be GMT610. Always better to change the options for the tune's platform to match the stuff you're using, rather than change to the platform that matches the options you want.

Don't forget to disable the P0178 DTC if you didn't use a flex sensor.

Add Fuel System Status to your channels, it'll show you OL, CL-Normal, OL-Accel/PE, etc.

[bdoobie69]

Thanks for the info. This is my second new AEM wideband so I was struggling to think that it was bad. As for the O2 sensors, I have about 6 of them, all new, that I have been swapping in and out of this. All seem to act the same (Denso, Delco). I wanted to get into higher driving regions, but had a dust shield dragging on the front rotor. I will address that and get back to this. I did change the platform on this. This was because I originally used PCM Hammer to modify this. Then switched to HPtuners for ease of tuning. I can look at switching that back. A few months back I did verify the heater circuits with test lights as well as verifying that the sensors to get hot. My concern was seeing the knock retard with barely any throttle being given. I was thinking this was truly lean because of this, but my spark is still all over the place so that could be it as well.

[blindsquirrel]

Any chance there's an exhaust leak that opens up with heat? Upstream of the WB but downstream of the NB?

[bdoobie69]

I had thought the same thing. I have Speed Engineering long tubes. Narrow bands are in the end of those. I then had 3" exhaust swelled to fit over the header and use 3" wide band clamps over the seam. I even wrapped aluminum foil under the clamp at that joint just to see if it made a difference while troubleshooting this. Wideband is about 12" back from the narrow band on the driver side. IAT is integrated with the Maf at the end of about a 2ft cold air tube. I played with the cylinder charge temp and biased it a small amount towards ECT which made the wideband read good until a higher temp. I put it back because that seemed very touchy. I pieced this together with segment swaps in tuner pro and am wondering is something in the background code isn't playing nice. Exhaust is full 3" and currently dumps before the rear axle which probably isn't helping matters.

[TwinTurbo4.8]

Are you still running it in OLSD? I had the same issue. I found that my file became corrupt after an issue with the battery. Try pulling the file and take a look. Make sure everything is failed under the engine diag section proper and reupload a new file. Fixed my issue right away. Be sure to a write entire when you reupload

[bdoobie69]

Just wanted to follow up with what I found. I have this working now. I bought an AEM UEGO wideband kit 30-4110. The first sensor that came with the kit was bad. Kept going lean. I called AEM and they sent a new one. Winter hit (Michigan) so I didn't mess much with it. The new sensor seemed to work but it would ultimately run to lean on warmup. It had me messing with Charge Temp Bias and everything under the moon. I had it reading lean, shut the vehicle off, started it back up and all the sudden it was reading rich. I grabbed a 6 year old sensor off my camaro and it works perfect. Who would have thought that I could get 2 new junk sensors in a row. Unfortunately AEM won't replace the last one cause I am over a year for warranty. Thanks for all the help trying to get this one solved guys!

[bdoobie69]

Just wanted to follow up to correct what I thought were my final results. It turns out the problem the whole time was the base tune was set up way too rich from the start at idle (like 10-11 afr). After a few starts running rich the wideband would just go lean and stay there. Removing the wideband from the exhaust to let it air out allowed it to work fine again. Turns out my narrowbands were correct the whole time.