Nasty Cam Installed need some help/guideance if you don't mind.

[Cyclone Chris]

Hi fellas,
To be honest, I hate to ask for help, but I'm wondering what I can do to make this cam/car ride better. I loaded up a tune that halfway works on it... I only spent about 20 mins on it. I guess I should tell you guys were I'm at.

Cam is a 23X/24X 62X at 108.

Anyway......

The car starts up perfect when cold. Idle is great at 925 rpm. About 3 secs after startup I get a TRAC OFF and a CEL comes on. Its the infamous P0106 code (MAF). I'm wondering if that code is throwing off my TC.

Well drivability is great except when I'm on throttle then release it and push the clutch in..... then it seems like it tries to search for idle.. it will go as low as 450 rpm, and close to it it stalling, but will eventually normalize.

1.. How do I fix this?

The other main problem is when I have the car warmed up then turn her off and start her back up. She wants to stall on me.. I guess it's called a Hot Start idle problem. She will not normalize unless I step on the gas pedal twice. Weird.....

2.. Any solutions to this?

Attached is my tune... please let me know what I can do before 8:30am EST tomorrow.... At least it's a start... I'll own you guys a beer.

I also attached a scan file if needed. The car is running hella rich right now.

Mods are in my sig + UD Pulley

[Bill@HPTuners]

yeah if you get a maf code that means your falling into SD mode more then likely which turns off TC.

[Cyclone Chris]

I'm gonna act dumb here... what should I do then?

[EC_Tune]

Check the diagnostic tests for P0106. You can move the coolant temp min value way up as a check.

[Russ K]

P0106 is a Map code. Make the changes to your tables as shown. I would need to see your stock tune, as the one I compared your file to has some inconsistencies for the idle over & underspeed spark tables. Your Low Maf table needs to be raised to lower the LTFT's. Positive LTFT's indicate a
lean AFR not rich. Looks like your WB isn't hooked up?

Russ Kemp

[Cyclone Chris]

Here is my original tune prior to Cam

The changes that weredone to the tune were from another GTO owner that has the same cam but at 5800 ft alttitude.

What can I do about Hot Start Idle Surge?

[07C6]

Why can't I open russ's thumbnails? I get a message that I am not logged on (I am) or I do not have permissions?? Any ideas

[Russ K]

Here is my original tune prior to Cam

The changes that weredone to the tune were from another GTO owner that has the same cam but at 5800 ft alttitude.

What can I do about Hot Start Idle Surge?

Just compared your stock tune to the modified tune. Change your idle overspeed spark tables back to stock. Note that your underspeed spark tables are stock. These tables are used to help control idle surging. You made things worse by just changing the overspeed spark tables.

Russ Kemp

[Cyclone Chris]

Just compared your stock tune to the modified tune. Change your idle overspeed spark tables back to stock. Note that your underspeed spark tables are stock. These tables are used to help control idle surging. You made things worse by just changing the overspeed spark tables.

Russ Kemp

She idles perfect below 177 ECT. Its weird, this only happens on Startup over 177 ECT. It hunts for idle about 8 times, unless I blip the throttle twice. Everything else seems to work out perfectly.

[Russ K]

Did you make all the changes to your tune like I suggested? Did you get your LTFT's closer to 0? If so, then raise your start up
air flow table by 1 g/sec at a time & retest the over 177*F starting. What temp stat are you using? I would install a 160* stat.

Russ Kemp

[Cyclone Chris]

Did you make all the changes to your tune like I suggested? Did you get your LTFT's closer to 0? If so, then raise your start up
air flow table by 1 g/sec at a time & retest the over 177*F starting. What temp stat are you using? I would install a 160* stat.

Russ Kemp

I do have a 160 installed, but ECT's sit around 185 Max. I did not do all the changes that you had on your screenshots... I couldn't determine what you changed them by and I haven't had the chance to go through every cell and change it. I'm having a hard time getting LTFT's at 0 for idle. Idle LTFT's are between +7 and +10. Still ajusting the VE table to fix these values. The rest are around -3 to 0. You can smell a crapload of gas being dumped on Hot Start.

I'll start working on those changes sometime tomorrow. I'm exhausted... have not had much sleep. Unfortunatley the car is 2 hours away. We kinda had a little problem smoking the clutch on the dyno at 5K. Waiting to order an LS7 Clutch Kit. In the meantime the guy working on my car will try different things to get to the bottom of this Hot Start issue. I'll start by sending him your suggested tables. Do you have those in hpt or excel format, so I can paste them?

Thanks
Chris

[Cyclone Chris]

As you can see from the Hot start idle log it hunts for commanded idle about 8 times. Granted we got it better on the last tune we put in, but we're missing something. Hopefully tomorrow, I can have the shop try the suggestions Russ K suggested and see what happens. I'm sure we're missing something critical though. We have up'd the airflow table quite a bit above 154 ECT's

Russ, as far as changing the idle overspeed spark tables back to stock.... why is that necessary? The car idles great, the problem lays when ECT's are about 154 or 177. I do not get any surging at all if she's cold or even if it's warm.

Here is a Hot Start Idle problem Log. If I blip the throttle upto 3K once or twice she would idle normal.
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/attach...1&d=1168210815

This is the tune thats currently in the car
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/attach...1&d=1168210798

I wish I had the car here with me, so I can give you better updated info.

[Cyclone Chris]

Why can't I open russ's thumbnails? I get a message that I am not logged on (I am) or I do not have permissions?? Any ideas

You'll need to register then you'll get an email with an activation link.. it may end up in your junk email, so check there.

[Cyclone Chris]

Russ K - I tried the paramters you suggested and it got even worse for some reason. I up'd the Startup Airflow quite a bit on the 2nd scan and still had the same problem. Overspeed/underspeed back to stock as you recommended.

Car smells like it's dumping a ton of gaon idle startup. What else can I do?

[Russ K]

Find out why the commanded AFR is going richer than 14.7. You may have to make some changes to the open loop tables.

Russ Kemp

[EC_Tune]

Need some idle timing. Try about 30-35 degrees to start in the Base Idle table and add some to Coastdown as well.

Base running airflow should be about 9 g/s from 400 -1200 RPM.
Here's a cam only C6 manual I tuned for you to look over. No VE table as it's an 06 though.

[Russ K]

I posted the idle spark table & some other table settings on post #5 above.
Were they used in the tune?

Russ Kemp

[Cyclone Chris]

I posted the idle spark table & some other table settings on post #5 above.
Were they used in the tune?

Russ Kemp

Sure did use them and nothing. Did not help, I posted the log file at idle for ya.

[brh26]

Did you notice if the fan(s) or AC are turned on when you get the hot idle surge? If so, think about increasing the idle rpm. I have seen the AC cycle(loud clicks can be heard) on and off and it causes idle surge.

[Cyclone Chris]

AC is always turned off. Not sure about the Fans as I have them set at 50% at 192 degrees.