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I know exactly what you're talking about.
In Rslo's case, his car completely stopped following op angles at 4000 rpm and ran fuel economy distances wot because the wot load table was .3 more than his air load.
I believe his car is using this table because he has CLIP/ADD Mode disabled.
The table itself is another OP threshold. I see a lot of people increase the values but the table is not asking for max load. Its asking for the load WOT begins. I normally lower these or leave them stock. Our s197 mainly refers to the tables in the vct tab.
Mp 7 is always trying to pull weight. As we tune our cars and adjust OP angles. We see more power retarding evc more from stock values. The closer your OP evc is to 20. The higher the chances at mp 7 will take weight around the rpm your OP ivo is -30.
What happens us when you floor it, I'll just use random cam angles. So we go wot at 3000, ivo -45 evc 12. At 4500 we retard evc to 16 and hold it at 16. Then we always retard ivo.
4000 -40
4500 -35
5000 -30
6000 -20.
So we go wot and 100% is in op. But around 5000 rpm, mp7 starts taking some weight. Then the weight goes back to op. OP angles are too similar to mp7. The reason weight doesn't transfer to 6 is because evc is 30*.
Change the evc for mp7 or OP evc. If you're not using it in fuel eco tables, disable mp7 in the mp config.
If any mp arent in your modes disable them. Less tables adjust.
So you think that as long as your VCT mode stays OP, the Load at WOT table isn't changing the MP weighting.
You think MP7 steals weight simply because the angles near 5000 rpm are close to the OP angles? That was my theory too. More so that the PCM wasn't commanding MP7 weight, just "happened to be in that neighborhood". But even if the angles aren't being deviated by this, the spark advance is. I ended up running identical bordeline advance in MP7, as I do in OP, so that regardless of MP7 taking weight, everything stays well controlled. Part of me still wants to see MPOP hold full power though
Yes, it's because of the angles. It will take everything related with mp 7 and OP, spark, torque. I'm not sure if it averages everything or how they're combined for final values.
When you were trying different strategies, I cant remember the strat number but there's one with mp 0-3, 9, and OP enabled. Mp 9 has IVO -14 EVC 20. OP keeps 100% of the weight set up that way.
The video card in my laptop messed up on me and I haven't pulled the files. One thing I was putting to the test was the vct fuel eco mapped points. The last few cells are assigning mp 7.
0
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
7
7
7
Even when I added 8 to the distances. I've kept the last ones 7. I tuned a roush f150 and kept it in op the entire pull.
I was the same way with wanting it to stay 100% in op. Real picky about my own. I was so picky, I disabled op and I'm running 0-8 and 10. I changed my evc angles a little bit as well and gave torque/inverse a make over. Ivo angles are stock, my evc angles are 0, 10, 20, 30, 40, 30, 20, 20, 20.
I've disabled 5, 6, 7, has 8, 10 and op enabled to keep weight in op. And used distance tables to keep it running stock like.
My fuel eco was 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 8, 3, 3, 3
Mp 5 : -10, 40
distance 4.2 : -10, 36
Mp 6 : -20, 30
Distance 4.4 : -20, 32
Mp 7 -30, 20
Distance 4.6 : -30, 28
Changing evc in mp 8 to 14* or so would of gotten evc a little more stock like. It carried op 100% though!
I'll have to mess with it some more and pull the roush file from my broke laptop. I've been running open loop messing with that lately.
thanks so much for the specific help. I think I got all the changes in the tune and logged some WOT pulls on the way to work and back home.
I think it's staying in OP a lot more but still seeing MP7 weight until about halfway through pull in 2nd gear, almost all OP through pull in 3rd.
I still notice that MP7 weight increases when DesLd goes over 1, what does that mean and do you think DesLD goes over 1 cuz I tweaked my speed density tables towards slightly more cyl mass where I was getting IPC?
2019 C7 Stingray M7 - long tube headers, 6.30/6.22 226/238 cam, supporting stuff, DOD and VVT delete.
Stock everything else
You need to log Torque Source - if Traction Control is triggered VCT will automatically go to Fuel Economy.That is why you have strange MP weight activity.
Your spark is also hitting Cyl. Pressure Limit.
You are also hitting your max calc MAP - that is why your LOAD goes over 1 which is not right for N/A car (unless you have cams).
Last edited by veeefour; 08-28-2019 at 02:10 AM.
v-performance.pl/
facebook.com/veee.performance/
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Remote tuning:
[email protected]
+48 697276579
Thanks! Yeah table descriptions can be misleading sometimes. I will return that table to stock. I believe my shuffle switch was already disabled.
I?ll report back if that fixes my VCT OP mode fallout issue. First I?m actually going to dyno it as is even though it jumps into FE mode the cam position it ends in the car seems to move pretty good. And seems to be close to some of the VCT OP settings from a Whipple and a D1x tune I stumbled upon.
Last edited by GapRider; 08-29-2019 at 05:03 AM.
2019 C7 Stingray M7 - long tube headers, 6.30/6.22 226/238 cam, supporting stuff, DOD and VVT delete.
Stock everything else
Hi, I've been trying to learn this by reading these threads and applying it to a stock 2018 5.0 cal. I can't seem to work out how it would ever use Mapped Points above 14. The 2018 stock cal Distance Tables reference Mapped Points from 0 to 14. The Mapped Point index arrays also do not reference anything higher than 14. Yet, I'm quite certain the stock cal uses Mapped Points higher than 14. Can anyone explain to me what I'm missing here?
Thanks!
Mike
I think I finally got it. I had a few things going on that added to my confusion.
For one, I understand now that the MP displayed in the log and used for VE/torque/spark is from measured actual cam timing not commanded.
Secondly, my cal from a reputable tuner commands all sorts of disabled mapped points. This threw me for a loop. The pcm still commands the cam timing for the disabled point but reports back an average of surrounding enabled points and I?m assuming uses the VE/spark/torque from those.
Thirdly, the stock 2018 cal doesn?t call for mapped points over I think 9 in FE and OD modes. However, higher mapped points fall right on top of those. I think the IMRC position is what toggles the PCM to use the higher mapped points calibration data even though they weren?t commanded directly.
I think I got the snap to point and like stuff figured out too, but still need to flash a few cals for testing.
I am attempting my first changes to my stock file for my f150. My goal is to eventually be able to tune my own bolt ons. I am attaching a file that is changed very little from stock mostly changes to the mapped points in FE and OP Stab. Changed the VCT angles on MP0-MP2 since these were the points already commanded by the Distance tables or at least from what I understand. Any help and advice is welcome to get this cal ironed out so that drivability won't suffer with a little chop at idle.
2019F150StockFile1stattempt.hpt
Okay just trying to make sure I understand how some if this works. Getting there piece by piece haha.
So like the picture I have 4.00 circled in the distance table and that number actually calls out the 4 in the axis I am pointing to which then tells what mapped point to look at which is 9.
This distance table isn't actually referring to MP4 but to row 4 correct? Then if it's 4.5 it would be essentially blending row 4 and 5 together 50/50 and if row 4 was say MP6 and row 5 was MP9 then it would used 50% of MP6 and 50% of MP9 correct?
Screenshot_20211107-135054_Chrome.jpg
For the Optimum Power IVO and EVC angles, how are those read in terms of crank angle?
let's say IVO is -50 and EVC is +30.
Is that EVO 310*, and EVC 390*?
As I understand it the base or “0” number is defined elsewhere in the same tab. I think on a Gen 3 coyote it’s 340 for intake and 369 for exhaust. The timing is added to or subtracted from that number. At 0,0 the Gen 3 cams defined the old way would be on a 115 lsa, 5 deg advanced.