This is more of a diagnostic question than a tuning issue. I tried for help on an Edge forum, but no help. I can't find much info on these 3.5L in regards to how they are supposed to run. The ole lady's Edge just doesn't feel right to me when I stomp on the gas (ex. a passing situation). The thing downshifts and screams, but doesn't seem to go anywhere in a hurry. At first I thought tranny was slipping so I hooked up my HPTuners to gather a log. Whoaa! Talk about either crappy tune or something seriously out of whack.
At 5300rpm I'm seeing ~7 degrees of timing and a commanded lambda of 0.650! For those of you that don't have a calculator, lambda 0.650 is 9.56 AFR!!! No wonder it feels like a turd, it's probably make like 125hp with that timing and AFR.
Also, look at about 4000rpm, the thing is WOT and still commanding stoich with about 2.6 degrees timing!
So my question is: Is this normal or is something wrong?
Background - I've messed with HPTuners on GM vehicles, but never Ford. I'm not looking to tune this thing, just figure out if it's operating normally or not. On the GM's I've messed with, especially trucks, it's common to see a huge delay commanding richer than stoich AFR when going WOT. So, if Ford is doing the same thing up until the 4000rpm mark, in this case, that doesn't seem foreign to me. It looks like some Fords have Cat protection, Manifold protection and O2 protection. With that said, the GM's also crank the timing up as the fuel enrichment is added, especially when not over enrichening because of a protection mode. I'm not seeing this Edge add much timing as it starts dumping fuel, a lot of fuel! Strange.
The Edge cruises nice and smooth with no funny behavior. I did notice fuel trims aren't zero, but aren't totally out in left field. It doesn't seem like they are off far enough to indicate a probelm. MAF looks to be reading close to what I would expect. I'm stumped.
Do you have a read of the tune you can post? you don't need to license it to pull or look at it, only make changes. The closest thing I can find in the repository is a Taurus which indicates close to what you are seeing but is older and I dont think a lot of tables are there. It does have a 3-5 second delay to go into open loop. The 2011 Taurus didn't have a wide band, but the slightly newer Taurus does and it commands .839 at WOT.
You should log your actual WB if the 2011 Edge has them from the factory. If not you would need to hook one up and log it to get a true AFR reading. Commanded can go rich like that if a lean condition is sensed it will command more fuel. Your LTFT indicate a lean condition. Your STFT are on the rich side, but over all its still slightly lean. If the Edge doesnt have a factory WB then you can't really trust the short trims at WOT in OL and its needing to command that much fuel just to stay on the rich side of the narrow band sensor.
You should also see if you can log Knock. You could be missing 5-8* of timing if you have some bad/ low octane gas, or a true lean condition causing knock.
IATs, ECT, fuel source, and spark source are useful in figuring out what in the tune its getting its commanded values from, if you can log those as well.
I would say a commanded lambda that low is indicating some thing is wrong and not enough fuel is making it to the cylinders. Bad fuel pump?
Murfie - great response, just what I was looking for. Thanks!
Ok, I'll try getting a better log and pull the tune. I'll admit I didn't spend much time monkeying with the log config. My log configs are set up for GM vehicles and they obviously didn't carry over well to Ford. As far as I know, the 2011 does have wide bands so that will be good. There didn't appear to be any knock channels available. Maybe I can try a newer beta and see if there are more channels.
One thing to add, and I assumed it wasn't related based on GM past experiences, is a check engine light for Evap leak. There seems be be a leak in the filler neck somewhere and I haven't had time to check it out. Would this trigger a 'safety' mode on the Ford? I've never seen it affect any engine calibration on GM so assumed it wouldn't here.
Well I tried reading the tune and no luck. It didn't seem to recognize the hardware. There was a drop down list of all the ECMs but no idea which one this has if it's even on the list.
Something interesting popped up when I scanned DTC's. Along with the evap code, there appears to be an NVMRAM code (P06B8). No idea what this means but doesn't sound good!
So I took another drive with more scan data active. The fuel still goes quite rich and timing still looks low, but at least getting into the double digits in a few spots. During the drive I stopped and reset the DTC's and the P06B8 stayed away for the rest of the drive. The log doesn't look much different than the first.
I couldn't find any knock retard channels, so don't know if that's a factor. Next time it gets filled up it will get 93 for giggles and see if anything changes.
Fuel trims show bank 2 is consistently leaner than bank 1. Wideband sensors seem to be tracking commanded AFR pretty well.
I believe it would by ESYS in the drop down list. You may need to send the file to support to have it defined before it can be looked into.
I wouldn't worry about the NVMRAM code its probably something from tring to read the ECU with the wrong "handshake". Clear it and it wont come back till you try to read again.
From further comparing your logs I would say your tune would be very similar to the 2013 taurus V6. It doesnt seem to be logging anything extremely out of the ordinary. I don't know what you can log of the transmission stuff to make sure its not slipping too bad, which my guess is it is not. Has there been any exhaust work or the O2 sensors changed at any point in the life of the vehicle? If the car has had a proper service and the EVAP issue gets fixed, that's where I would start with the bank to bank difference if it still is an issue. 5-6% could be totally normal for the car.
Speculating from the pictures, these engines seem to be very knock limited at high load from 4000-5500 and has an aggressive temperature control strategy. 3-5* of spark is added when its at lambda for OT. Usually this is paired with an aggressive exhaust cam strategy, which sure enough the Taurus has from 2750 to 5000. The knock PID would be critical in tuning spark in this area.
Again, great explanation! That's more than I ever thought I would know about a Ford. haha
No, O2 sensors haven't been touched, as the second owner, and no exhaust work.
The only other thing I wondered about is the tranny computer. Is it possible the tranny is telling the engine to throttle back the torque? I did calculate ratios between engine speed and vehicle speed to see if I could detect any tranny slipping. There wasn't anything obvious that I saw. It looked like the ratios stayed pretty well locked in once the gear change was finished. I'm thinking along the lines of the chicken and egg scenario. Is the tranny not showing any slip because it told the engine to cut back? I'm not sure how one would determine this if no fault codes come up. There doesn't appear to be hardly any tranny information available on the scanner.
I don’t have nearly as much knowledge as some of the guys on here but I can tell you this (I have a 13 sho). The ignition timing will never be as high as you think it should be these di engines are a different animal. And spending the time to populate the logger correctly will find the issue. Wether it be torque management or knock or something else . Important pids in 35 eb are desired load and actual air load ,actual and desired throttle angle and desired torque from etc. check fuel system status open/closed loop. It will say open or closed but also tell you ok or fault.. hope it helps
FWIW my car likes about 14 degrees wot and won’t take any total timing on 87 octane
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