Newbi questions on tuning LQ4

[5FDP]

When you apply these changes are you doing the paste special by half or you just doing paste and go?

You will find it way better to use the paste special by half because right now that VE is way too choppy, it has some huge spikes all the over the place. After each time you apply the new data, use the smooth selection in the editor window to smooth out your changes. Also do no log the MAF in the channels while you tune the VE, it can skew your data.

Also if you are using your wideband log and to make the corrections in a graph, you need to disable all fuel trims, both the short term and long term trims. You don't want the trims to fight you while you make the VE. Once the VE is smoother you could enable the trims and tweak the table where needed using the LTFT + STFT method for tuning.

[jemarshall64]

I was using past by %, but not by half. There were allot of cells there were coming back with a number about 15/-15 and my thought was to get them to move closer quick, and then after doing that until there were no cells popping up anything over 10/-10 I would start going by %half. Today was just a short last minuet day. I don't think I am anywhere neer where I need to be, but I am still happy with getting it closer than it was.

I "think" I had the LTFT disabled. I am unsure at this point.

I am using the WB Error to do the VE tables.

Are there other trims besides the STFT and LTFT you are asking about?

I did not do allot of smoothing in the graphs, I played with it some, but was having issues with the laptop and charging it off the truck between run's, the trucks inverter is really really slow on charging it. Will keep it charged if its plugged in, just not allot of amps to push the laptop's battery back up. I did order two more battery for it so I can have more reserve power, but they didn't arrive today until after I had left.

When you sat do not log the MAF while logging for VE tables, are you saying to not even have it scanning into its own table?

If you want to see something scary, look through the 5th and 6th runs, it was maxing the O2 out and requesting 50% or more fuel in the WB Error table. I don't think I was able to keep the O2 in the readable range of the WB until the 7th run........

Thank you for all your help, it is seriously making a difference.

[jemarshall64]

Got done with Cooler and cleaned up. Re-read the part about turning off the STFT too, the guid I was going by did not mention that. I will set it that way for tomorrow. Did some smoothing and I think it should be good to run some more logs on it.

[5FDP]

There are only two trims, just the short and long. Pay no real attention to the o2 sensors when both the trims and closed loop are disabled, it is going purely off open loop meaning the VE for fueling control.

Yes, remove the channel for the MAF altogether.

The longer the logs, the better the information, doing lots of 9-13 minutes logs is worse than doing 3-4 longer 20-25 minute logs. The more data you can get, the better. Aim for the 20min logs to get more data for everytime you make adjustments.

[jemarshall64]

Just out of curiosity, why does logging the MAF effect the VE data?

With this being a non street legal rig it is kinda of hard to get that long of drive time on it, got a place where I think I can get some more time on it today. Also, that time was how long it would take the trans to get to 250, and the battery on the lap top was going down fast...........

Also on that not, I tried to get it to read standalone and it wouldn't work. I need to see if I can get that to read so I can leave the laptop in the truck.

This is what I was following to run it standalone.

https://www.hptuners.com/help/

MPVI Pro Standalone Data Logging
The standalone data logging capability of the MPVI Pro unit allows scanning of the vehicle without the use of a laptop.

To setup the standalone datalogging feature for the first time on a new vehicle or when switching from another vehicle follow the steps below or watch our Standalone Datalogging Demo:
1. Key your vehicle into the run position.
2. Connect your interface to your vehicle's obd2 port and to your laptop's usb port.
3. Open VCM Suite Scanner and open your Table(Primary) Display.
4. Click the connect icon.
5. Add or delete any PID's you want.
6. Save your config for later use(optional).
7. Click Scan-MPVI Pro Data Logging.
8. Click Write Config-Yes.
9. Unplug the USB connector from your laptop.
10. Start vehicle if not already running.
11. Press and Hold the Record button for ~2 seconds to start recording.
12. Press and Hold the Stop button for ~2 seconds when your finished to stop recording.

I would go down that list and the only thing off is on step 8 a yes box does not appear. but it shows a status bar at the bottom and say its ready. But then when I get to step 11 it turns on the error light steady after I push the record button, and does not save any data. I am going to see if I can dig up some info on it before heading out this morning, but I will see.

[cobaltssoverbooster]

setup your scanner settings how you want your data to record.
once its setup follow these steps:
1) Connect scanner to vehicle (KOEO)
2) open MPVI interfacing screen
3) Click the option for Get Info (this gets the vehicle information for available channels)
4) Click write configuration and wait for it to finish
5) remove com cable from interface to computer
6) do steps 10-12 in your list

Your just missing the part where you tell the interface to retrieve the vehicle data

[jemarshall64]

I got it to work messing with it. Just pulled it off the trailer and did a standalobe test read letting it idle/warm up. Getting ready to go for the first run.

[jemarshall64]

Here is what I got for the first run. Doing standalone recording. Trans cooler is helping, keeping temps under 215 so am not rushing to get readings. All readings in the WB Error log are with 10/-10 Going to do a %half hit and maybe 2 more runs the same way.

Edit: one cell at -17, but its probably when I hammered on it. Should be smoothable

[jemarshall64]

Got in some good runs I think. Not done yet but its much better. It at least will keep it from going lean under throttle with the MAF on now.

Will get some more time in on it in the next couple of weeks. Doing a day trip next weekend. Will see if I can get some reads during it, but it will mostly all be slow rock crawling and trails.

Files are after the last run for today. Please let me know what you think.

And just to double check, PE should be on for MAF tuning right? The guide I have does not say.

[jemarshall64]

There is another issue I am trying to figure out. When you start it up and its already up to temp, it will take a long time to idle down. If I put it in gear before it idles all the way down it will go to a fairly high idle and stay there, even if I put it back in to gear. To get it to idle back where it should again, I have to turn the ignition of for 20 to 30 seconds, restart it, and let it idle all the way down before moving it out of park.

Any idea whats making it do this?

Also, who do I make it come down to idle faster on start up?

[cobaltssoverbooster]

There is another issue I am trying to figure out. When you start it up and its already up to temp, it will take a long time to idle down. If I put it in gear before it idles all the way down it will go to a fairly high idle and stay there, even if I put it back in to gear. To get it to idle back where it should again, I have to turn the ignition of for 20 to 30 seconds, restart it, and let it idle all the way down before moving it out of park.
Any idea whats making it do this?
Also, who do I make it come down to idle faster on start up?

Got in some good runs I think. Not done yet but its much better. It at least will keep it from going lean under throttle with the MAF on now.
Will get some more time in on it in the next couple of weeks. Doing a day trip next weekend. Will see if I can get some reads during it, but it will mostly all be slow rock crawling and trails.
Files are after the last run for today. Please let me know what you think.
And just to double check, PE should be on for MAF tuning right? The guide I have does not say.

1) the maf sensor being enabled or disabled doesn't matter for PE. PE should always be active otherwise you will blow your engine from running lean. Anything that is in PE mode cant be tuned via trims anyways so once in PE you will have to use the wideband regardless of tuning method.
2) idle coast down issues can be due to a number of things. i would start by making your idle ignition values in the main spark tables match those found in your idle ignition tables. This uneven transition you have can cause a hang on deceleration. When i tune running airflow (raf) i get it close by disabling the adaptive idle settings under idle-airflow and logging desired idle airflow against coolant temperature. if the raf is not correct again you can cause hanging. If your driving and experiencing issues with bucking or a sensation of the car wanting to drive away in gear then research the throttle follower and cracker tables. i would reference you to another thread but the pictures in the post no longer work. i printed it out before it went down and i havent turned it into a pdf yet but that could be something i do for the v8 guys i guess.

obviously any air leaks will not help your idle down situation.

[cobaltssoverbooster]

https://www.hptuners.com/forum/showt...400#post492400

[jemarshall64]

Standing here doing a rat run, runs really lean until 160, then something changed and it richened up. Can't find anything in the editor that triggers at 160 ect

[jemarshall64]

From what I found PE should be off when doing 'VE running, is this wrong?

[jemarshall64]

1) the maf sensor being enabled or disabled doesn't matter for PE. PE should always be active otherwise you will blow your engine from running lean. Anything that is in PE mode cant be tuned via trims anyways so once in PE you will have to use the wideband regardless of tuning method.
2) idle coast down issues can be due to a number of things. i would start by making your idle ignition values in the main spark tables match those found in your idle ignition tables. This uneven transition you have can cause a hang on deceleration. When i tune running airflow (raf) i get it close by disabling the adaptive idle settings under idle-airflow and logging desired idle airflow against coolant temperature. if the raf is not correct again you can cause hanging. If your driving and experiencing issues with bucking or a sensation of the car wanting to drive away in gear then research the throttle follower and cracker tables. i would reference you to another thread but the pictures in the post no longer work. i printed it out before it went down and i haven't turned it into a pdf yet but that could be something i do for the v8 guys i guess.

obviously any air leaks will not help your idle down situation.

Ok, back on house computer, the Laptop keyboard sucks, and I hate trying to respond on my phone. Thank you for the link. I did find the thread but like you said the pic's are all gone.

I ran the RAF procedure and it was asking for .5 across the idle zone. I did paste by percent. I fired it back up and it was asking for another .5 at that ECT spot.... It is sitting on the trailer until I go next weekend, but I will fire it off and log the air flow each day and get it closer. Last Wednesday I adjusted the IAC counts down to approx 70 but after starting the tuning Friday they had moved up into the 150 range. Just this one adjustment got them to move back into the 90 range. I know it will get tuned as it goes, but the IAC on the TB is fooking noisy above anything about 75-80, it whistles pretty bad. Since I flipped the intake and its right under the dash it will pretty much drive you insane.

So for the spark tables you are saying to take the numbers from Spark>Advance>Idle Spark Advance>In Drive/In Park and copy them over to Spark>Advance>Main Spark Advance>High and Low octane tables to adjust the bottom end of the main spark tables. Just wanting to clarify I am moving the numbers the right way.

I do not have any bucking/surging/run away from it, just the one issue where if I fire it off and shift into gear to soon it idles high. High enough I have to fight against it with the brakes.

To disable the Adaptive Idle tables, are you just maxing out the 5 Adaptive Idle timers?

Thanks for your help. I think I have watched you video's almost a dozen times over the last 3 or so weeks. Has pointed out allot of little things.

Also, I still can not find any setting at the 160 ECT point that would make it go from idling at WB 18-19, to suddenly adjusting itself down to 14.7 ish.

[cobaltssoverbooster]

i put the pdf at the end of the post.
if you use desired idle airflow against coolant for the raf then you just copy and paste the values in. i dont use stit and ltit to start. The idle trims are so freaking slow and i dont have patience so i use desired airflow to get me there faster. make sure your desired air units are the same as the same as the editor units you are using.

[cobaltssoverbooster]

if i had to guess at your lean startup until 160 i would say its your open loop table.
see the trim system doesnt just immediately go to work because the o2 needs time to preheat before it works properly. my guess is the pre-programmed wait period is just long enough to get you to somewhere around 130-160*F. when my dash reads 160*F my editor reads roughly 127-134*f, the cluster i have isnt accurate until roughly 180-200*F.
try setting your open loop afr request table to stock with the exception of anything over 160*F request 1.0 (stoich). As a motor warms up the cylinder starts to seal up and become more efficient. If you startup with stoich settings you cant tune for the warmup period that well because when the cylinder does seal and you start tuning for operating temp the airflow will change a little bit. thats why most ve or maf guides tell you to only record data at full operating temp.

If this doesnt work try comparing to a stock file and looking for the smoking gun by examining the tables that register as modified.
open loop.png

[jemarshall64]

The Laptop screen went tits up this morning so I will try and answer this off the top of my head. Mom's got an old one with a bad HD i can steal after work and put my HD in so I should still be good to go.

I made a chart that matched the Idle Air flow table and logged the LTIT and then copied it over. I'm am not sure how you do it with the desired air flow. I was just planning on running the LTIT once a day after work this week and trying to get it close that way.

Thank you for the PDF link, its starting to make allot more since with the pic's. Like the wife say's, I'm very visual based.

[cobaltssoverbooster]

im a visual person too so i feel ya.
on your channel list you need to insert a new channel. Search for the channel labeled Desired Idle Airflow. (there is a search box just type "desired" into it and it should be one of the first 8 or so that pop up)
now instead of logging ltit (which is slower than a giraffe throwing up) you will log your new channel.

remember when setting it up the units have to match your editor. i run my editor in metric which is why mine is g/sec and C*
raf.png

[jemarshall64]

which is slower than a giraffe throwing upraf.png

Now thats funny right there


Thanks for the tip, if I get the laptop up and running I will give it a try this evening.