2016 Mustang Ecoboost Tuning

[curt@injected]

I've been a long time coyote, mod motor hemi tuner and am trying my hand on the ecoboost stuff. We've done trucks in the past but the 15+ stuff is a little different. I purchased and took the tuning school's class on ecoboost stuff and while it was helpful I am not a fan of the way they teach to do some things. Biggest thing I am trying to do right now on this particular car is to get the throttle to open fully at WOT and stay open. They teach a method which is basically raping the predicted throttle angle and effective area tables. I prefer to tune vehicles in a factory manner and this is not the correct way to do it. Does anybody have any advice for getting the throttle to open fully? Only way I have been able to do it so far is to use the wastegate controls to reduce boost and it will open fully but once I start creeping the boost back up it will start closing back down. I've tried increasing the driver demand tables while doing this but the throttle still closes. Any input would be appreciated.

[murfie]

All of this is assuming you have raised the appropriate limits to load/TQ/Airflow that limit boost which are covered in the tuning school.

There is open loop throttle control and closed loop throttle control. Open loop is the TB model. At WOT the ECU likes to operate in OL for as much control as possible. In OL the ecu can just follow tables and command the engine and not have to compare sensor data and make corrections. CL is the driver demand table. At WOT the normal behavior for a Coyote is to switch to OL throttle control. With ford ECO boost engines the WOT start and WOT end are maxed out at double the maximum % so it doesnt go into full OL throttle control. So just like if your MAF curve is off in CL you will still get the correct actual WB reading as the ecu uses the error to correct itself the same happens with the throttle on an eco boost. You can command more airflow all you want if the ECU registers error in TQ/Load/Turbo flow control it will correct it usually by closing the throttle. You can try lowering your start WOT and end WOT to get the car to use complete OL throttle control. This would then ignore the DD torque and calculate the torque request from the TIP and MAP sensor directly. You would need to correct IPC wheel torque error in your Torque/ load tables, a few SD tables about WOT may need to be adjusted, and under general some desired air mass parameters. You should be able to control boost with the wastegate, while having the torque request calculated from the TIP/MAP sensors and TB model directly, and as long as you are not hitting a limit table the TB should remain open.

If you want to leave that alone and do it as factory as possible, you would then need to correct wastegate controls, DD torque request, SD tables, Desired Airmass and TQ/load tables to all be in a correct relationship with one another to with what the TIP and MAP sensors are reporting in order to reduce the CL error that is closing the TB fixing the relationship. All at a time would need to be adjusted in the correct relationship in order to raise boost with out throttle closure. Figuring out which you have wrong could be difficult and time consuming.

There is no reason to enter bad information into the TB model. Ford certainly did not need to.

[curt@injected]

All of this is assuming you have raised the appropriate limits to load/TQ/Airflow that limit boost which are covered in the tuning school.

There is open loop throttle control and closed loop throttle control. Open loop is the TB model. At WOT the ECU likes to operate in OL for as much control as possible. In OL the ecu can just follow tables and command the engine and not have to compare sensor data and make corrections. CL is the driver demand table. At WOT the normal behavior for a Coyote is to switch to OL throttle control. With ford ECO boost engines the WOT start and WOT end are maxed out at double the maximum % so it doesnt go into full OL throttle control. So just like if your MAF curve is off in CL you will still get the correct actual WB reading as the ecu uses the error to correct itself the same happens with the throttle on an eco boost. You can command more airflow all you want if the ECU registers error in TQ/Load/Turbo flow control it will correct it usually by closing the throttle. You can try lowering your start WOT and end WOT to get the car to use complete OL throttle control. This would then ignore the DD torque and calculate the torque request from the TIP and MAP sensor directly. You would need to correct IPC wheel torque error in your Torque/ load tables, a few SD tables about WOT may need to be adjusted, and under general some desired air mass parameters. You should be able to control boost with the wastegate, while having the torque request calculated from the TIP/MAP sensors and TB model directly, and as long as you are not hitting a limit table the TB should remain open.

If you want to leave that alone and do it as factory as possible, you would then need to correct wastegate controls, DD torque request, SD tables, Desired Airmass and TQ/load tables to all be in a correct relationship with one another to with what the TIP and MAP sensors are reporting in order to reduce the CL error that is closing the TB fixing the relationship. All at a time would need to be adjusted in the correct relationship in order to raise boost with out throttle closure. Figuring out which you have wrong could be difficult and time consuming.

There is no reason to enter bad information into the TB model. Ford certainly did not need to.

I've tried lowering the wot start and end but it does not work. On the older trucks if you do that and turn off wot torque limiting it will open the throttle fully but that switch does not exist on the 15+. Only thing I have found so far that works is to use the wastegate controls to slightly lower boost and command a higher torque value. The pcm then opens the throttle fully in order to obtain the desired load. It's tedious but seems to work.

Thank you for your input.

[jamesm]

Assuming all of your limiters are out of the way and you're commanding the torque that you want, the only thing determining throttle angle would be TIP actual vs. desired TIP. If TIP actual is > desired TIP, the throttle plate will close. I've found that the easiest solution is to just modify the feed forward tables such that TIP actual/desired match in as many cases as possible.