2006 gt going out of PE while WOT

[mJolnir]

My brother in law told me he got long tube headers, a catless X pipe and a SCT canned tune for his 2006 mustang GT manual, but he felt nothing different besides the sound, since i have no Ford credits all i could do is copy his tune and compare it to a stock tune, nothing called my attention on the program.

then i started looking at the log and noticed that the car goes out of PE mode at 4300 rpm and starts commanding 1.000 lambda at wot, dont know what setting should be changed to fix this, the other thing is knock, its pulling -2* (the max this tune allows) the whole way, i told him i wanted to do another log with 100 oct fuel on the tank to eliminate the posibility of it being fuel quality related.

this is the log, from 01:30 to 1:45 it goes to 1.000 commanded lambda, at 3:43 does it again
drive1.hpl

this is the tune on the car
saralden stock 0.hpt
this is a stock tune from the repository
2006 ford mustang GT - 1433610651.hpt

[murfie]

looks like you have LTFT at cruising indicating your MAF is lean while in CL. This is also indicated by when it jumps back in to CL from OL STFT jump right to 20%. I think you need to dial in the MAF vs voltage more to get your fueling corrected. OR re-enabling your MAF adaption should keep it in OL PE mode at WOT. You should still dial in the MAF.

I would raise your knock advance limit to 3* to make sure you are seeing knock and not knock advance. Both have 2* limits and I know some of the older fords are opposite from the new stuff where negative is adding timing and positive is actual knock. I say this because your actual timing advance is 18* @ 4250RPM / 88% load and your tune is calling for ~16* at that same point in the borderline table.

[mJolnir]

looks like you have LTFT at cruising indicating your MAF is lean while in CL. This is also indicated by when it jumps back in to CL from OL STFT jump right to 20%. I think you need to dial in the MAF vs voltage more to get your fueling corrected. OR re-enabling your MAF adaption should keep it in OL PE mode at WOT. You should still dial in the MAF.

I would raise your knock advance limit to 3* to make sure you are seeing knock and not knock advance. Both have 2* limits and I know some of the older fords are opposite from the new stuff where negative is adding timing and positive is actual knock. I say this because your actual timing advance is 18* @ 4250RPM / 88% load and your tune is calling for ~16* at that same point in the borderline table.

Yes, i was under the impression that the MAF would need tuning since he just installed the long tube headers, what puzzles me is that it starts commanding 14.7 afr mid pull, that means no matter how well tuned the MAF is, it will be lean from 4200 rpm to redline

[murfie]

enabling your MAF adaption should keep it in OL PE mode at WOT

[Jn2]

Im going to agree with Murfie here...If you look at your pull, it's doing running in Opel Loop Power Demand Enrichment, then around 4200rpm, like clockwork, it will go to Closed Loop Stoich. This happens on every pull in every gear.. once you pass ~4,200 rpm. The cause seems to be from the massive +20 STFT correction that also occurs at that same RPM. I thin that massive spike is what is causing it to return to Closed Loop. Can you throw the stock intake back on? This would save you from having to license his file and actually tune it.

Im wondering if it could also be something mechanically wrong, either a vacuum leak or something else. If this occurs on the stock parts then you are most likely dealing with a mechanical leak somewhere...

[mJolnir]

Im going to agree with Murfie here...If you look at your pull, it's doing running in Opel Loop Power Demand Enrichment, then around 4200rpm, like clockwork, it will go to Closed Loop Stoich. This happens on every pull in every gear.. once you pass ~4,200 rpm. The cause seems to be from the massive +20 STFT correction that also occurs at that same RPM. I thin that massive spike is what is causing it to return to Closed Loop. Can you throw the stock intake back on? This would save you from having to license his file and actually tune it.

Im wondering if it could also be something mechanically wrong, either a vacuum leak or something else. If this occurs on the stock parts then you are most likely dealing with a mechanical leak somewhere...

he does not have the stock intake, he bought the car with the aftermarket intake on it THIS INTAKE

This being the first ford i log i was a little lost in the begining but i am confident i can correct his MAF as the process seems to be no different from tuning a GM MAF, i just need the car to stay OL and tune it with the wideband, i havent searched yet on how to do it but looking at the hpt file im guessing if i max out "CLO2 Sensor Temp" it will stay in open loop.

my wideband is supposed to get here sometime next week and he agreed to pay the credits

[jchambers]

Its not an issue with the STFT correction. IMO its an issue with the airflow-based torque request. The first thing I'd do is lift the Cylair WOT and Max Multiplier values. There are other changes to the DBW settings that should be done but the tune is so far off at this point that its not worth discussiong. Also, the 2005 and 2006 are known to have open loop fueling issues with the anticipation logic so I'd shut that off. Update the LWFM tables to reflect the actual load; this will help as well.

[Jn2]

Its not an issue with the STFT correction. IMO its an issue with the airflow-based torque request. The first thing I'd do is lift the Cylair WOT and Max Multiplier values. There are other changes to the DBW settings that should be done but the tune is so far off at this point that its not worth discussiong. Also, the 2005 and 2006 are known to have open loop fueling issues with the anticipation logic so I'd shut that off. Update the LWFM tables to reflect the actual load; this will help as well.

Now that is something I didn't know...thanks for sharing

[murfie]

In the cook book, if I'm remembering right, it said you don't need to shut the anticipation logic off to dial in the maf on the coyotes. Im guessing this explains why it said that.

[mJolnir]

Its not an issue with the STFT correction. IMO its an issue with the airflow-based torque request. The first thing I'd do is lift the Cylair WOT and Max Multiplier values. There are other changes to the DBW settings that should be done but the tune is so far off at this point that its not worth discussiong. Also, the 2005 and 2006 are known to have open loop fueling issues with the anticipation logic so I'd shut that off. Update the LWFM tables to reflect the actual load; this will help as well.

ok, the stock tune vs whats in the car at the moment is
stock atm
1.10...1.90 for the WOT cylair multiplier
0.90....1.90 for the cylair max multiplier

should i just take them back to stock, should i raise them more, what effect will raising them have on the car?

where can i shut the anticipation logic off?

what does LWFM stands for?

is there any link where i can read about it?
info on the older 05-10 cars is not as abundant as for the coyotes in this forum

[15PSI]

Load with Failed MAF

[mJolnir]

Quick update on this, tried getting the load with failed MAF correct, tuned the MAF, first by stft corrections, then by ltft corrections until ltft changed to -1, tried enabling MAF adaption, lowering pedal PE to 200, lowering tps PE threshold and it still will go out of PE, the only thing that i can see is ipc wheel tq error shoots over -300 lb ft and when ig goes out of PE goes back to 0, he tells me he has a ford racing stock replacement throttle, could this be causing the problems?
drive maf5.hpl
Rivier lwfm maf no PE 1.hpt

[SultanHassanMasTuning]

Rivier lwfm maf no PE 1_test.hpt try this

[mJolnir]

Rivier lwfm maf no PE 1_test.hpt try this

Still doing the same things, still getting big negative IPC error numbers
drvepefx6test.hpl

[murfie]

Your MAF curve is still wrong. As it comes out of OL and goes into CL you see ~19%-20% STFT. Using a wideband, I would hook it up and start logging that and comparing it to your commanded lambda. Apply the lambda error to the MAF curve. You can convert the O2 sensor to lambda and copy the existing math to get a % EQ ratio error. Correcting these values will raise the value up and correct your engine brake torque. So like Jchambers said its a torque based air flow request issue, and you correct it by fixing your MAF curve values. Your are requesting too much higher of a TQ value than your MAF values are indicating.

[mJolnir]

Your MAF curve is still wrong. As it comes out of OL and goes into CL you see ~19%-20% STFT. Using a wideband, I would hook it up and start logging that and comparing it to your commanded lambda. Apply the lambda error to the MAF curve. You can convert the O2 sensor to lambda and copy the existing math to get a % EQ ratio error. Correcting these values will raise the value up and correct your engine brake torque. So like Jchambers said its a torque based air flow request issue, and you correct it by fixing your MAF curve values. Your are requesting too much higher of a TQ value than your MAF values are indicating.

i will connect my wideband and do that, i saw the big 20% jumps but i tough those where the decel fueling being slow, everywhere else fuel trims are +5, if you see time frames 5:17 to 5:35 you see he went WOT but it stayed on closed loop and the trims where small.

to this moment i have tried:
correctly setting the maf via fuel trims
logging air load to correct the load with failed maf tables
adding 10% to the driver demand tables
logging throttle error to correct predicted throttle angle
changing scheduled torque max to 10% higher, changing it all to 500 ft lb, changing it to 900 FT LB
setting WOT tps lower
setting accelerator wot start lower.
and finally putting all back to stock except the MAF.

im starting to believe theres something mecanical being the culprit here.

[murfie]

Fix your MAF with the wide band and commanded lambda. Its the right thing to do. Fuel trims make your curve look good but thats because in OL they are at 0.

You can pull 15%-20% from your DD tables in the WOT areas making sure the values in the other lower pedal value rows are not higher than WOT, and lower the request TQ values. You will then fix this condition of requested Tq being much higher than engine TQ, but if your MAF values are so low you will be running very lean and CL not coming back on will not fix this and this could be dangerous. This is also why you are seeing negative IPC error until the CL fuel trims gets everything back closer to where it should be.

[murfie]

I just noticed your OL delay maximum is higher than the maximum allowed 5 seconds. The stock tune you found in the repository is also like this. Not sure how the ECU deals with that or why it would be like that in a stock tune.