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Thread: Stroked LS2 SDOL tune T56 car E40 pcm - bog on hard shift at redline log attached

  1. #41
    Hmmm not sure about MAP sensor delay it seems to match TPS. What does lag a little is the airflow calc.

    I changed the injector timing to stock LS3. Lowered the min pulse mg to match the LS3 stock cal (mine was a little higher), and when the injector timing didn't help took another swing at it with the transient fuel settings.

    I've added so much transient fuel the thing should be predicting my shifts by now. I'm a huge percentage increase over stock and still seeing just as bad of a bog.

    I also tried a write entire and disabled the TCS patch that is included in the 2BAR OS just for shits n grins and it does not seem to have helped.

    On the bright side - spinning for 1.4 seconds I did 0-60 in 3.0 and 0-100 in 6.9 seconds. Just for tuning purposes obviously ;p. Aggressive shifts without lifting entirely off the gas does still show a bog, although with the faster shifts it seemed to reduce the lean spike. Still hurt though.

    It is tempting to just hook the MAF up and spend this time trying to tune around the bucking and chuggling due to the bad MAF signal, but I really prefer being in SD for the throttle response and smoothness. I also wanted to switch to a different intake tube that doesn't have a MAF mount.

    stock inj timing and more transient still bog.hplmore transient.hpt

  2. #42
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    I think 10-SS was on to something here... Where your going lean it's still commanding 14.7afr or rather it's still in closed loop from the majority of the last log until you get pretty high up in the rpms... I think your going to have to lower your tps for PE quite a bit more... I still really believe you have a PE issue more than anything else...

    Add PE TPS, stft's, ltft's all to your scanner... If they're not available request they be added through support (the tps one specifically)... I think your VE table is off as well adding into a lot of this problem... Fuel trims can only correct so quickly after all... I assume this is in closed loop? Didn't look through the tune for that...
    2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
    2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80

    ~Greg Huggins~
    Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
    Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC

  3. #43
    No the tune is speed density open loop only so I'm assuming you mean I'm in non PE for much of the last log? I'm guessing if it has changed it's because you suggested I shift the MAP requirements for PE up to 60kpa.

    The biggest thing I see is that the g/cyl calcs seem to be slower than what the MAP and throttle pedal are doing which is driving no fuel to be added.
    Last edited by dankmac; 02-24-2017 at 02:09 PM.

  4. #44
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    Put it into closed loop - Use fueling to dial in the VE table - change map to 15 kpa and use TPS for PE only... st's will help to correct for the issues in closed loop if there are any after redialing the VE in...

    We also never got a build setup to my knowledge...
    2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
    2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80

    ~Greg Huggins~
    Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
    Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC

  5. #45
    It is a 11.1:1 compression 403 LS2 with stock LS3 heads and intake - Comp 226/242 on 117 degreed at +3.5 installed (supposed to be ground +5) on LSG lobes. Hooker exhaust manifolds to dual 2.5" with Kooks green cats. Made about 470/450 whp/wtq. I'm running OLSD because the intake is very not MAF friendly in the RX7. 4 inch tube with the MAF in a crappy double radius bend with the throttle body directly behind it.

    E40 pcm with the 2bar SD custom OS mainly to get better fan control.

    From the last page. Been posting and rambling a lot. Was pretty far down a long post.

    I'll give a closed loop setup a try.

  6. #46
    So I have found something interesting after reading another thread. Regardless of the RPM windows input into dynamic airflow tables (mine were 8196 and 8000) - it switches to high speed airflow calc mode at 4200 rpm and disables at 4000 rpm.

    I have tried reducing those values down to lower values thinking it was a bug at the max range (what the thread led me to believe) and it still goes to high speed at 4200.

    I tried doing 100/50 and it starts in high speed and immediately dies. I also tried 50/100 and it also starts in high speed and dies.

    How can I prevent it from switching airflow calc modes - or should I not even worry about this?

    At 10:54 into this log file it actually didn't bog on a hard 1-2 and it chirped the tire and it was pretty damn nice...until 2-3 it fell on it's face. You can see the airflow mode switch over to high speed at 4200.

    I haven't tried closed loop yet. I got stuck testing out this dynamic airflow thing.

    no dynamic still bog.hpl

  7. #47
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    Have you tried putting it into high speed like a typically MAF only tune with really really low settings? I would think that once the MAF was failed that it wouldn't try to go back to MAF unless there's some sort of built in initialization or self test in the back ground for that rpm?

    I also believe the thread your referring to was one of 10-SS's... I remember a request or something for HPT to look into it but nothing was ever found?
    2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
    2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80

    ~Greg Huggins~
    Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
    Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC

  8. #48
    It fired and immediately stalled by forcing high speed

  9. #49
    Senior Tuner 10_SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dankmac View Post
    It fired and immediately stalled by forcing high speed
    I had this problem after not failing the MAF properly in SD mode.. had to lower the fail time wherever that is. Chased this problem around in the VE and startup airflow tables for about 6mo before I realized what was going on.. lol

    Your right about the TPS matching MAP.. and your right about the airflow calc lagging.. regarding PE mode, I saw a few spots where you are still in PE mode throughout the shift at least according to scanner which is slow on your setup and you still get the lean 02 blips. So what else can make slow air calc?

    I put allot of work into trying to stop my lean tip in above 4000rpm which no doubt is a problem, more so on my setup sicne I have crap for fuel pressure, but basically I can do nothing at 4000rpm and above for transients.. I can blow black smoke during shift below 4000rpm all day long, but above that magic number it's gone.

    So have you tried going WOT at say 3000 or 3500rpm, then immediately comparing this to 4100-4300 going WOT just for giggles? I know there's something with the code at 4000rpm, but not many people have problems so nothing will be done. I can prove it time and time again, in SD mode BTW. Who knows, maybe this is all due to the lag in air calc... I never looked at that part. And to add confusion to this, when I was in SD mode anytime I smacked WOT I got hickup as well, and with that and not being able to use Burst KNock since it never worked right in MAP mode, I said hell with it, back to MAF and happy ever since.

    You might be better off spending time getting your MAF working right if it ran good there, as annoying as that sounds.

    http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...-above-3999rpm
    Last edited by 10_SS; 02-24-2017 at 10:19 PM.
    2010 Camaro LS3 (E38 ECU - Spark only). MS3X running complete RTT fuel control (wideband).
    Whipple 2.9L, 3.875" Pulley, kit injectors, supplied MSD Boost-A-Pump, stock pump
    LG Motorsports 1 7/8" Headers - No Cats, stock mid pipe with JBA Axle Back
    ZL1 Wheels/Tires

  10. #50
    Senior Tuner 10_SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10_SS View Post
    I had this problem after not failing the MAF properly in SD mode.. had to lower the fail time wherever that is. Chased this problem around in the VE and startup airflow tables for about 6mo before I realized what was going on.. lol

    Your right about the TPS matching MAP.. and your right about the airflow calc lagging.. regarding PE mode, I saw a few spots where you are still in PE mode throughout the shift at least according to scanner which is slow on your setup and you still get the lean 02 blips. So what else can make slow air calc?

    I put allot of work into trying to stop my lean tip in above 4000rpm which no doubt is a problem, more so on my setup sicne I have crap for fuel pressure, but basically I can do nothing at 4000rpm and above for transients.. I can blow black smoke during shift below 4000rpm all day long, but above that magic number it's gone.

    So have you tried going WOT at say 3000 or 3500rpm, then immediately comparing this to 4100-4300 going WOT just for giggles? I know there's something with the code at 4000rpm, but not many people have problems so nothing will be done. I can prove it time and time again, in SD mode BTW. Who knows, maybe this is all due to the lag in air calc... I never looked at that part. And to add confusion to this, when I was in SD mode anytime I smacked WOT I got hickup as well, and with that and not being able to use Burst KNock since it never worked right in MAP mode, I said hell with it, back to MAF and happy ever since.

    You might be better off spending time getting your MAF working right if it ran good there, as annoying as that sounds. I also know the M6 crowd has way more problems with this stuff than the auto crowd since they just got WOT and leave it there, then say everything always works fine... kinda makes me wanna convert to auto :/ But I have mine perfect right now, crisp clean WOTS at any RPM, even though I'm lean at 18+:1 AFR at 170kpa tip in anywhere from 4000rpm-6500rpm during transient, I have my Throttle opening rate reduced (now only at 3500rpm+) and lots of burst knock retard there to take care of it.

    http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...-above-3999rpm
    2010 Camaro LS3 (E38 ECU - Spark only). MS3X running complete RTT fuel control (wideband).
    Whipple 2.9L, 3.875" Pulley, kit injectors, supplied MSD Boost-A-Pump, stock pump
    LG Motorsports 1 7/8" Headers - No Cats, stock mid pipe with JBA Axle Back
    ZL1 Wheels/Tires

  11. #51
    So I forced it into high speed mode and got it to run by reducing that "run before MAF test" variable. It is set to 2.0 seconds default and I reduced to 0 seconds.

    It had a couple weird episodes where the idle went insane, but I got it to run and drive okay. Something about the idle PID went unstable and I saw 430% duty cycle on the injectors as it hunted all over. After I got it to run it drove around ok, but the bog was worse than before. It bogged when I punched it in first and then hard on each shift.

    I really am convinced now my issue is that it runs in high speed mode above 4000. I don't know what to do anymore since I can't force it into low speed air calc.

    Is it possible to run speed density below 4k and MAF above 4? The MAF works great at high airflow.

  12. #52
    Senior Tuner Higgs Boson's Avatar
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    Post a pic of your engine bay and maf location

  13. #53
    http://imgur.com/a/O9CC8

    Here are a couple pictures. It is a 4 inch tube slightly squished for clearance with a card MAF in it.

    Any way to run MAF-less below 4k and run off the MAF above 4k?

  14. #54
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    You could just set it up to have the dynamic airflow setting at 3,000rpm. That way it will use a mixed mode up to that rpm and mostly all MAF sensor past that.

    That is how they run from the factory but with a higher setting.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

    If you don't post your tune and logs when you have questions you aren't helping yourself.

  15. #55
    Yes but wouldn't that still reference the MAF below 3k?

  16. #56
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    It still references it, but it uses a percentage of both to my understanding...

    Something I've always questioned - what does VE correction factor do - almost looks like this decides which one it leans towards?
    2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
    2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80

    ~Greg Huggins~
    Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
    Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC

  17. #57
    Swapped the MAP from the LS2. I'd take a peek at your tune if you don't mind.

  18. #58
    So - plot twist - to get my junk to the track yesterday I put a MAF only CAL in it. The issue is centralized to the VE table OR something about how it is being referenced. Even with MAF and VE enabled in open loop the car had the same bog on shifts. Once I forced MAF only it shifted fine, but as expected my steady misfire is back due to poor MAF signal. Flat and downhill in 4th-6th in a wide range of rpm it has a misfire due to the maf signal bouncing between 2 and 4.

    I'm pretty miffed.

  19. #59
    Senior Tuner Higgs Boson's Avatar
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    check your wiring harness and grounds everywhere all over the car including the battery and frame, etc.

  20. #60
    I finally read the thread that 10_SS linked to and damn it seems I am in the same situation as many other people. Been banging my head against a wall trying to fix something incurable?

    I've emailed support to see if they can add manifold volume to an e40 calibration. If not I'm not really certain where to go from here.