Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: End of an Era??? No more Ford tuning.

  1. #1
    Advanced Tuner jsllc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Bozeman, MT
    Posts
    701

    End of an Era??? No more Ford tuning.

    According to Mr. Whipple there will be no more tuning from 2018 on.

    From: Dustin Whipple
    Sent: Saturday, December 3, 2016 10:34 PM
    To: Scott Johnson
    Subject: Re: Shelby F150


    Ya,you can legally make changes but they legally don't have to give you the sourcecode. I'm a mfg in the aftermarket, I know the laws pretty well. We're not Ford but we can still legally encrypt our intellectual property. Someone gets past the encryption then so be it. Next years pcm's you can't modify any parameter of any P code at an aftermarket level. Not illegal, just can't as it's hardwritten in the c code.

    Thank you,

    DustinWhipple
    WhippleSuperchargers

    On Dec 3, 2016, at 7:56 PM, Scott Johnson wrote:

    This was adopted by the US copyright office on10/28/2015. It had provision whereby its effect would be delayed forapprox. one year. I have attached a copy for your reading enjoyment. In anutshell The US government believes when you sell your "hard work" for "hard-earned" dollars the buying party has a right to own it. Modify it. Replace it. But most certainly read it.

    Computer programs that are contained in and control the functioning of a motorized land vehicle such as a personal automobile, commercial motor vehicle or mechanized agricultural vehicle, except for computer programs primarily designed for the control of telematics or entertainment systems for such vehicle, when circumvention is a necessary step undertaken by the authorized owner of the vehicle to allow the diagnosis, repair or lawful modification of a vehicle function; and where such circumvention does not constitute a violation of applicable law, including without limitation regulations promulgated by the Department of Transportation or the Environmental Protection Agency; and provided, however, that such circumvention is initiated no earlier than 12 months after the effective date of this regulation.
    Last edited by jsllc; 12-04-2016 at 03:38 PM.

  2. #2
    Tuning Addict
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Franklin, NC / Gainesville, Ga
    Posts
    6,736
    If Ford wants to run themselves out of business then let them is what I say So far I haven't been happy with any of their racing cals - throttle hangs and in some instances - self revs during shifts to the point of barking the tires when you let the clutch back out, not safe to drive for other reasons either including the fact that it will leap way out then hold itself back with light throttle inputs, so if they make it to where only Ford racing calibrators are doing all of their tunes, then it won't be long before no one will buy a Ford product to modify!!! Dumbest thing any manufacturer can do...

    I did talk to HPT about this - they said they will just have to wait and see if anything can be done calibrating wise, but if they've already given up on the racing cals, I regrettably don't hold out much hope?
    2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
    2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80

    ~Greg Huggins~
    Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
    Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC

  3. #3
    HPT Employee Eric@HPTuners's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Crawfordville, FL
    Posts
    2,409
    He doesn't have much faith in the aftermarket, LOL.
    Eric Brooks
    HP Tuners, LLC

  4. #4
    Senior Tuner mbray01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Slidell, La.
    Posts
    1,015
    Lol, im doubting tuning will stop. Will they be less forthcoming on info, probably, but to think no one is gonna crack the code, come on man, lol
    Michael Bray
    Rusty Knuckle Garage
    Slidell, Louisiana
    20yr Master Tech.
    Advanced Level Specialist
    Custom Car Fabrication, Customization, High Performance.
    GM World Class Technician
    Shop Owner

  5. #5
    Advanced Tuner RandomEnthusiast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    333
    Seeing as how there are people out there using old ford eecv pcms with custom operating parameters and things like gm code59 and the sloppy mess that is my $e6 code on my 8625 and all the other magic that happens just give it time. I mean if you really want to see what kind of encryption can be circumvented just look at the xbox, xbox 360, ps3, ps4 and all this other stuff. It's only software. Software can be broken in one way or another. I mean they broke HDCP protocols for sakes. Just give it time. If enough interest is passed to the security sector of computing it will get broken. Trust me some people just love to tinker.

  6. #6
    Tuning Addict
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Franklin, NC / Gainesville, Ga
    Posts
    6,736
    Oh, there's no doubt that given enough time and investment that it won't be cracked - Eric had Whipple's encryption cracked in just a couple of days from the time I sent him the first file - possibly even less time than that - and after all the manufacturer still has to have a way to re-flash them at the dealerships level... It's just the simple fact that Ford is going to all of the investment and time to try and make things like this harder for everyone except for the individual companies working with them like whipple and roush - their shooting themselves in the feet is all they're doing - just that simple... Nobody buying a mustang or F150 or whatever is going to want to pay over a thousand bucks to have one tuned when they can go to GM or anyone else and buy a more tuner/modifiable friendly setup... Why would Ford bother with something like this? Their already having enough problems, so why add to it?
    2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
    2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80

    ~Greg Huggins~
    Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
    Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC

  7. #7
    Advanced Tuner 96gt4.6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    489
    While we are on the topic, what about being able to check if the PCM has been reflashed for warranty issues? I know currently verifying the CVN's and checking the OBD key cycle counters vs. the mileage is about the only way up until '16, but these can also be reset by a dealer TSB reflash/ect, so there seems to always be a way to weasel out if you need to. I have heard rumors that there might possible be an end to this and a more concrete way to deny warranty if necessary.
    '17 Whipple'd S550
    Too many other projects to list.....see my YouTube channel for more: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr7...-XfDG53sCh6tcw

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by 96gt4.6 View Post
    While we are on the topic, what about being able to check if the PCM has been reflashed for warranty issues? I know currently verifying the CVN's and checking the OBD key cycle counters vs. the mileage is about the only way up until '16, but these can also be reset by a dealer TSB reflash/ect, so there seems to always be a way to weasel out if you need to. I have heard rumors that there might possible be an end to this and a more concrete way to deny warranty if necessary.
    We won't be implementing any bypassing of these systems. If you want powertrain warranty leave your vehicle stock.
    I count sheep in hex...

  9. #9
    Advanced Tuner 96gt4.6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    489
    Understood Chris, and just to be clear I really wasn't asking for a way to circumvent the OEM warranty, simply asking if there was any insight as to if there was going to be a change in the ECU's to implement a more concrete way to check for the presence of a non-authorized re-flash.

    Indeed, as a dealer tech anytime the ECU is modified you just tossed your powertrain warranty goodbye.
    '17 Whipple'd S550
    Too many other projects to list.....see my YouTube channel for more: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr7...-XfDG53sCh6tcw

  10. #10
    Senior Tuner mbray01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Slidell, La.
    Posts
    1,015
    WELL THE ONLY WAY TO CIRCUMVENT THAT USING HPT, WOULD BE TO BUY A NEW PCM, MODIFY THE NEW PCM, AND KEEP THE ORIGINAL AS STOCK. sOME OF THE OTHER SOFTWARES ALLOW YOU TO MODIFY CVN'S ETC TO MAKE IT APPEAR AS IF ITS NEVER BEEN TOUCHED
    Michael Bray
    Rusty Knuckle Garage
    Slidell, Louisiana
    20yr Master Tech.
    Advanced Level Specialist
    Custom Car Fabrication, Customization, High Performance.
    GM World Class Technician
    Shop Owner

  11. #11
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    435
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric@HPTuners View Post
    He doesn't have much faith in the aftermarket, LOL.
    So just make the Whipple Tune readable :-)
    I need it so bad ! (throttle area etc)
    http://www.lsxcalibration.com - Lsx Tuning France - Spécialisé Reprogrammation moteur Corvette Camaro Hummer, Ford Mustang et autres véhicules US

    Check our Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/lsxcalibration.com

  12. #12
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Paris, France
    Posts
    435
    Quote Originally Posted by GHuggins View Post
    Oh, there's no doubt that given enough time and investment that it won't be cracked - Eric had Whipple's encryption cracked in just a couple of days from the time I sent him the first file - possibly even less time than that - and after all the manufacturer still has to have a way to re-flash them at the dealerships level... It's just the simple fact that Ford is going to all of the investment and time to try and make things like this harder for everyone except for the individual companies working with them like whipple and roush -
    what Whipple modified ECM are already cracked ?
    Can you post the F150 file that can be read.
    I've ordered a new, need tb parameters badly.
    Last edited by Brice; 12-29-2016 at 01:52 AM.
    http://www.lsxcalibration.com - Lsx Tuning France - Spécialisé Reprogrammation moteur Corvette Camaro Hummer, Ford Mustang et autres véhicules US

    Check our Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/lsxcalibration.com

  13. #13
    Tuning Addict
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Franklin, NC / Gainesville, Ga
    Posts
    6,736
    Not sure if I'm supposed to post this or not, but HPT has already cracked the Whipple encryption... As we speak HPT is making a new editor to support this - it is supposed to decrypt the tunes as they are opened... They also have to make the scanner to where it can read the pids from the new operating systems, but this is all in the works

    If it's the 132mm TB settings that you need - they are already posted in the main US non eco boost forum under Whipple 132mm TB...
    2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
    2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80

    ~Greg Huggins~
    Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
    Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC

  14. #14
    What about Roush files on 2015+

  15. #15
    Senior Tuner
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,104
    you're not going to stop hot rodding. ever. Dodge tried, lost, Gm half ass tried, lost. Where there is a will and cubic dollars, there is a way.
    The most hated, make the most power.
    93 Ranger. 5.3 D1X. 1069hp.

  16. #16
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    34
    Quote Originally Posted by 96gt4.6 View Post
    While we are on the topic, what about being able to check if the PCM has been reflashed for warranty issues? I know currently verifying the CVN's and checking the OBD key cycle counters vs. the mileage is about the only way up until '16, but these can also be reset by a dealer TSB reflash/ect, so there seems to always be a way to weasel out if you need to. I have heard rumors that there might possible be an end to this and a more concrete way to deny warranty if necessary.
    what happened in '16 ??

    just bought a '16 f150

    thanks

  17. #17
    Tuner
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Alpena, MI
    Posts
    186
    I remember a GM engineer saying this back in 2014