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Thread: Twin Turbo 2016 Mustang GT - Load and MAF issue

  1. #1

    Twin Turbo 2016 Mustang GT - Load and MAF issue

    alright, I have been chasing this issue for a couple weeks now. I think its time to give in and see if you guys can help me.

    for started here is some info on the build

    2016 Mustang GT - 6m
    Hellion Twin turbo 6266 setup
    ID1000s
    single Walbro 450lph pump
    running E85
    7psi of boost

    other then that a stock car.

    I have tuned Mopar and GM for some time, but this is my first personal attempt into the Ford side. Especially the coyote platform.

    the issues I am running into are as follows.

    - MAF reading seems very low. I have read up on some boosted s550 vehicles on here and referenced their MAF and Speed density adjustments, but whenever I try to implement those into my vehicle it wont start.
    - My load readings are very low. I had my timing tables originally setup for as high as 2.0 (200%). But no matter what I do the load reading doesn't seem to exceed 90%

    I'm Sure it is something simple I have just been battling this for far too long. Any help is appreciated.


    id1000 last tune - 7-5-2016.hpt
    4th gear pull.hpl

    updated log with more PIDs
    4th 2.hpl
    Last edited by SYCK SS; 08-12-2016 at 06:39 PM.

  2. #2
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    Im looking at your stuff now, but in case we need to know, what size is your MAF housing and where is it located in the charged system?

  3. #3
    I appreciate it.

    MAF on the hellion kit is actually mounted on top of the intercooler ( not a big fan, so was planning on moving it to the actual charge pipe eventually)

    when installing it, this was a concern of mine. But have seen many have no issue so I figured I would give it a shot at low boost just to get it driving for now.


    here you can see how its mounted
    Last edited by SYCK SS; 07-05-2016 at 06:20 PM.

  4. #4
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    The issue may be related to your flex fuel logic being enabled. If your MAF curve is not calibrated before enabling it, then it will throw off the entire thing. I would try turning off flex fuel as soon as you go empty and fill up on 93. Do a nice long datalog with a lot of driving, stop and go, freeway, the whole rpm band, no WOT pulls. This should tell you how off your curve is. I usually drive around town for 20-30 mins to achieve this, the goal is to populate the MAF period histogram with a lot of hits, this way you can properly adjust the curve.



    Edit: just saw your pic, yeah i'm not a fan of that MAF placement either, air isn't the straightest coming out of the intercooler core, you also run the risk of unmetered air getting by since there are intercooler rows that will let air through with out even touching the MAF
    Last edited by Jn2; 07-05-2016 at 06:26 PM.

  5. #5
    I do not have flex fuel enabled though. It was prior to the turbos. but as soon as I went boost I disabled it and returned it to the disabled setting. and I checked again and it isn't turned on in my most recent tunes. I have been through 2 gas tanks already tuning her.

    But I will keep it off and give a tank of 93 a try and see how the curve looks. majority of my MAF curve is under 4% as of right now for normal driving. Ill give it a shot on 93 though.

  6. #6
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    This should help if you decide to relocate the MAF, you can either clamp it on with a coupler or have it welded.
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-0-OD-MAF-H...NTMdoc&vxp=mtr

    and you can use this to plug the MAF port on the IC
    http://zzperformance.com/ecotec/coba...off-plate.html

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Jn2 View Post
    This should help if you decide to relocate the MAF, you can either clamp it on with a coupler or have it welded.
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/4-0-OD-MAF-H...NTMdoc&vxp=mtr

    and you can use this to plug the MAF port on the IC
    http://zzperformance.com/ecotec/coba...off-plate.html
    I will definitely keep these links. thank you for those

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SYCK SS View Post
    I do not have flex fuel enabled though. It was prior to the turbos. but as soon as I went boost I disabled it and returned it to the disabled setting. and I checked again and it isn't turned on in my most recent tunes. I have been through 2 gas tanks already tuning her.

    But I will keep it off and give a tank of 93 a try and see how the curve looks. majority of my MAF curve is under 4% as of right now for normal driving. Ill give it a shot on 93 though.
    Okay, just started looking at your tune, You never went into Power Enrichment...Im reviewing it still...but I already noticed that much...will edit with more info as i find it

    Edit:

    Need to log more PIDS, something is limiting you, I believe its related to the torque and torque inverse tables. You're Load value are also way off, compare calculated load to Absolute Load(SAE) and you'll see what I mean

    Can you add the following PIDs when you datalog?

    - Torque Source
    - Spark Source
    - Fuel Source
    - Throttle Angle
    - Wheel Torque Error
    - Driver Demand Limit Source

    Also under "Engine>Fuel>COT, Lean Cruise"go ahead and disable the 3 switches, Cat temp control, flange temp control, and 02 sens temp control.
    Last edited by Jn2; 07-05-2016 at 07:00 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Jn2 View Post
    Okay, just started looking at your tune, You never went into Power Enrichment...Im reviewing it still...but I already noticed that much...will edit with more info as i find it

    Edit:

    Need to log more PIDS, something is limiting you, I believe its related to the torque and torque inverse tables. You're Load value are also way off, compare calculated load to Absolute Load(SAE) and you'll see what I mean

    Can you add the following PIDs when you datalog?

    - Torque Source
    - Spark Source
    - Fuel Source
    - Throttle Angle
    - Wheel Torque Error
    - Driver Demand Limit Source

    Also under "Engine>Fuel>COT, Lean Cruise"go ahead and disable the 3 switches, Cat temp control, flange temp control, and 02 sens temp control.
    I will add these and get some logs on the way home from work. I will also disable those that you mentioned.

    The calculated loads I entered were based off of advice given by someone. I left em stock at first and it did the same thing.

    thank you for the help I really appreciated it. ill update when I get a new log

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SYCK SS View Post
    I will add these and get some logs on the way home from work. I will also disable those that you mentioned.

    The calculated loads I entered were based off of advice given by someone. I left em stock at first and it did the same thing.

    thank you for the help I really appreciated it. ill update when I get a new log
    Post a log when you can....also you can reference the following article for more info on how to tune the torque tables,

    http://www.masterenginetuner.com/201...e-maps-p1.html

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Jn2 View Post
    Post a log when you can....also you can reference the following article for more info on how to tune the torque tables,

    http://www.masterenginetuner.com/201...e-maps-p1.html

    finally got that log with updated PIDs. Hopefully you can see something I cant


    4th 2.hpl

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    Looks like your VCT never goes into Optimum power and neither do your MAP points. It's like you aren't even in WOT. You indicated torque never exceeds 404lbs either, something isn't right, you should be making a lot more on twins.

  13. #13
    Senior Tuner SultanHassanMasTuning's Avatar
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    did you adjust your torque and inverse torque tables? what is your throttle doing, probably closing...
    Follow @MASTUNING visit www.mastuned.com
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by SultanHassanMasTuning View Post
    did you adjust your torque and inverse torque tables? what is your throttle doing, probably closing...
    I have attempted but put them back to stock as it didn't make a difference.

    The throttle is not closing at all. Stays open whole time.

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    I've yet to see a 15 use OP. Even with it enabled and everything set up correctly. It's not like the 11-14's. Just an FYI to the gentleman a few posts up

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by curt@injected View Post
    I've yet to see a 15 use OP. Even with it enabled and everything set up correctly. It's not like the 11-14's. Just an FYI to the gentleman a few posts up
    if you log VCT SCHEDULE MODE you will see it go to op
    plus the cams will follow the op tables

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    Quote Originally Posted by rshoe09 View Post
    if you log VCT SCHEDULE MODE you will see it go to op
    plus the cams will follow the op tables
    Yes vct scheduled mode will go to op but if you look at weighting it never uses the op spark tables. Yes the op cam tables do work.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by curt@injected View Post
    Yes vct scheduled mode will go to op but if you look at weighting it never uses the op spark tables. Yes the op cam tables do work.
    agreed. always found it strange

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    The mass airflow has to be WAY off. No way to be boosted and have the numbers in the MAF vs Period table you do. That's throwing off everything load based, and glancing over the tune, there are a few other tables that need some work, but the period table is where I would start. Did that kit happen to give you the area of tubing where the MAF goes in and does the MAF reside on the in or out of that intercooler?
    Current toy- 97 SCSB OBS chevy forged 6.0/4l80 combo with a bit of boost..currently back under the knife

    To many previous vehicles to list

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by toyoguru View Post
    The mass airflow has to be WAY off. No way to be boosted and have the numbers in the MAF vs Period table you do. That's throwing off everything load based, and glancing over the tune, there are a few other tables that need some work, but the period table is where I would start. Did that kit happen to give you the area of tubing where the MAF goes in and does the MAF reside on the in or out of that intercooler?
    He posted a pic, the MAF is in the intercooler, poor location for accurate readings