5.0 wet nitro tuning

[caniggia]

Hi

Need advice, just got for tuning fresh installed wet nitro kit. As i tuned nitro wet before in 2005 Mustang, i'm thinking about sense of wet nitro in 2013, as one is going open loop and still controlling fuel. For it makes no sense, as if it will get additional fuel it will try to remove it from injectors. Correct me if i'm wrong.

Thanks.

[Jn2]

Coyote has Widebands, so it it senses that it needs to adore remove fuel to reach commanded lambda then it will do it from by increasing/decreasing it from the injectors. As long as you set your pills for the correct mix you should be fine though.

You should however remove some spark timing to start off with...how much depends on how much nitrous you plan on spraying.

[MarkTucker]

You will want to make sure you have the car dialed in perfectly before tuning for the nitrous. Once the car is dialed in. Then you will know where on the timing table your car is running at WOT. So before you do your nitrous pulls, you can go ahead and remove timing in the next cells above your previously cells hit while tuning it naturally aspirated. I would start with -2? per 50 shot to start with. Then installed the recommended jet sizes for your kit based fuel pressure. And then just fine tune timing and air/fuel through the nitrous/fuel jets on the nitrous kit.

[caniggia]

I think they installed wet because of injectors, so i think i will have to use fuel jets also or change injectors what i would prefer. I seen so many blown intakes or burned cars that i think i will install bigger injectors...
Will that work this way?

Thanks for advice, this way i was going to do that.

[15PSI]

I ran a ZEX wet kit on my 2012 for a while. Stock injectors and normal bolt ons, CAI and LTs. I ran the 100 HP pills and took 4 degrees out and it ran perfectly. You did not say what brand of kit you are working with or what your HP objective is, but on the ZEX kit, you have the option of installing up to 175 HP Jets. In that case you would want to pull 6-7 degrees. You might want to drop down a size cooler on the plugs as well.

[caniggia]

I thing they installed there 125 pills and kit is Nitro.
Just seen somewhere that stock injectors are good to 150 dry shot.
Is there a reason to run wet if injectors are enough?

[MarkTucker]

I thing they installed there 125 pills and kit is Nitro.
Just seen somewhere that stock injectors are good to 150 dry shot.
Is there a reason to run wet if injectors are enough?

Wet kit systems are better, so you don't have to swap between two tune files. (one for nitrous and one for without nitrous) In less you plan on putting the Dry Shot in front of the MAF, and use the MAF to scale for fueling.(which I do not recommend to do) If you run a dry kit, you will have to tune the ECU for fueling for the added nitrous, unlike on a wet kit. You just tune the car naturally aspirated and then tune the nitrous system separately.

In my opinion, Wet kits are safer and easier.

I guess in less, this is just a race car only.

[15PSI]

Mark explained it perfectly. You can easily run the 175 HP jets on a wet kit with the stock injectors. Just pull the timing and run colder plugs. Is your customer running a window switch? That allows full timing during normal street driving, and will only retard when the window strike RPM is reached.

[caniggia]

No window switch and this is street car, no racing.
Fuel and nitro is connected to plate behind throttle, 2 solenoids are there

[MarkTucker]

So yeah. You should be all set with your kit, that you have.

[AKDMB]

So just to be clear (for the 5.0's at least) the car doesnt care how desired lambda is achieved, right? Even though the injectors themselves aren't providing all the fuel ( in the case of a wet kit, the fuel jets are providing some of it),it doesn't freak out and start pulling fuel regardless?

[MarkTucker]

So just to be clear (for the 5.0's at least) the car doesnt care how desired lambda is achieved, right? Even though the injectors themselves aren't providing all the fuel ( in the case of a wet kit, the fuel jets are providing some of it),it doesn't freak out and start pulling fuel regardless?

The car is going to fuel the engine for what you have it calibrated to. WOT Lambda and MAF Calibration.
Dial in your Lambda without the nitrous.
Then dial the nitrous kit in to achieve that same lambda.

[caniggia]

What afr would you recommend for lets say 150 shot? Same as supercharger for 6-8 psi?

[MarkTucker]

What afr would you recommend for lets say 150 shot? Same as supercharger for 6-8 psi?

Best AFR is going to be determined by your tune aggressiveness.
Find what afr best suits the car naturally aspirated. Then tune the nitrous kit to get afr back to your commanded afr.

[caniggia]

Ok, thanks

[MarkTucker]

No problem man.

[FLtuner]

Best AFR is going to be determined by your tune aggressiveness.
Find what afr best suits the car naturally aspirated. Then tune the nitrous kit to get afr back to your commanded afr.

I would never tune a coyote on nitrous with the same wot lambda as N/A especially with a 150 shot. I just dont want to see someone hurt their car.

[MarkTucker]

I would never tune a coyote on nitrous with the same wot lambda as N/A especially with a 150 shot. I just dont want to see someone hurt their car.

Yes, you are correct.
When I posted, I didn't read it that way.

[caniggia]

OK, so above advice are not working as i expected, here are my findings.
Kit is wet nitrous express with throttle switch, no window switch. Jets are 125hp, plate is between manifold and throttle.

So i tuned N/A as i wanted, aroung 27 degrees timing on 93 octane, runs perfect. I made 0.9 airload spark as i wanted as this was airload he got. Then last row i've put 1.2 and removed some timing expecting he will get there. Guess what? He's not getting any more load than n/a... So removing timing is not working.
What he's doing more, he's not registering any more airflow. I got this same maf flow with nitro like without nitro.
But he's leaning mixture up to 20%, because he don't see more airflow.
I'm commanding 0.82-0.83 lambda, he's not getting that, goes around 0.87, but this i think is because he had not enough time to increase fuel trims. So finally i'm getting exactly this same timing as without nitrous and i may get same a/f ratio.
What is also interesting, no knock retard even with same high timing and in real leaner mixture.
Now i see reason to run wet kit, dry will make it lean like hell...

So what i'm thinking about, if now i will remove timing for nitrous 9snce there is same airload), n/a will be lazy, 4 deg of timing makes lot... Since i'm getting no knock retard, i'm going to correct fuel jets to compensate 20% lean mixture and leave timing where it is and a/f where it is N/A, so around 0.82-0.83.

What do you think guys about this? If i'm not getting knock retard, is there a reason to make it richer or remove timing?

BTW, it pulls really strong, burning tires on 3rd no problem when nitrous is on.

03. nitro 01.hpl

[FLtuner]

It wont register more airflow thru the maf with nitrous, it will actually show slightly less depending on how much you spray.

Pull some timing out. Id pull out 6 degrees, yes that much.

Command wot lambda to .80, then add however much the trims are needing to add back in the maf at wot to have zero trims while spraying.

That will be the nitrous tune.