To give a little back story my car is a 2010 hhr ss auto with a 6758 full bolt ons and running on 93. I've recently been dyno tuned after I did the base. The car made 330 whp and 311ftlbs which felt low to me was wondering if you guys could take a look and throw me some tips on where to make changes to help the car make more power and run better. Thanks.
Last edited by Shane H; 04-07-2016 at 09:33 PM.
Originally Posted by Shane H
Bump
Shane, i have a solstice with same turbo and run on 93. I have a external BOV, so ignore all the maf differences. When I compare yours to mine, what I see is our spark tables are very close. But, you still have lots of torque management and you could push opt spark much more. I haven't dyno'd my car, but i get 47 lb/min MAF numbers at 23 psi boost at 6400 rpm ish and my 40-80 times are incredible. Mine is RWD and with Traction off, it will break loose at any speed less than 70 mph. I spool to 20 psi at 3500 rpm, so if your not seeing that type of response, check the pre-load on your waste gate. I attached my tune for your ref. use with caution as I'm no pro, but I have over 1000 miles on this level of cal. You'll see a big dip in Op spark in the mid / low range... that is my attempt to get cruise working so it doesn't cause limp home...... not there yet at speeds above 65 mpg.........
Good luck, let me know what you see.
PS. My car is manual trans, so extra extra caution if you have auto trans.......
One more thing, you have your waste gate DCs at 100 at max RPM / Load. FYI, when I had mine that way, my boost went over 29 psi......... You definitely have something holding you back. I would suggest you limit the DC table to 68 ish until you figure it out, because when you do..... could easily blow a stock LNF...
oops. attached log vs tune.. here is tune.
Scott, you can not base any info off of MAF flow. Too many factors play into that. Also, tires breaking loose doesn't mean anything because that could be a traction issue. Turbo spool doesn't mean much when referencing it to a specific number and a specific RPM. Lastly, 29PSI could be because you don't have 3bar map sensors. The turbo falls on its face at max rpm, which means it shouldn't be spiking to 29psi unless something is constructing flow.
Mike, I know MAF is not perfect and that was not my intent. He is running the larger turbo and the relative flow is a measure of the goal.. IE a KO4 will be in high 20s and the 6758 can go to mid 40s. ... without having daily dyno access I think knowing a range is helpful. ... to get a sense if he is in the ball park.. Obviously, his maf errors must be within range or this is meaningless. My ref to turbo spool is only because my 6758 turbo needed a pre load adjustment as it was sticking and not boosting until over 5k rpms. Lastly... and i know with your experience you wouldn't have seen this issue, but when i first did the build and started tuning.... my cal was so far off it wouldn't make peak boost. So I first dialed up the WG DCs to 100.... then when I figured out how to correct the OPT spark and Torque mangment ..and many other parameters I learned about with help from this forum... suddenly that 100%WG DC spiked my boost over 29 psi... the 6758 turbo can make and hold incredible boost. I had to dial it back to 68% to keep in the 23 psi rang. I'm only trying to help Shane.. so when he figures out what is holding his cal back, not to have a cal that will over boost and hurt his engine.
Well first I would like to pull my foot out of my mouth because I definitely thought it was a different thread. ZFR label should definitely mean more boost. I was thinking stock turbo and I don't know why. I take back everything except for the MAF numbers. Going off of that is meaningless in my opinion. Best to track actual net performance like 60-100 times etc. Don't get me started on dyno numbers. I think those are meaningless as well. Not the dyno itself, but the peak numbers everyone wants.
Scott and Mike I'd like to first thank you guys for the tips. This is the dyno tune that I got from Matt at zzperformance. I had a cal on the car that was much more dialed back before I went there. Low timing low boost etc just to be safe on the drive there fter the install of the 6758. The current tune is what matt had set me up with. After doing a ton of investigation on here I felt that there were some issues in this tune that were holding the car back. Yes the auto trans is weak however I know of a few guys in the 400whp range who are having no issues. As of right now I'm am running 24psi at wot and it comes in right around 3k-3500. I have access to a dyno almost whenever I want so I generally have been working on the dyno. However I will start tracking 60-100.
Scott, I'll do some investigating with your tune vs mine. I know my maf is not into the mid 40's that's for sure.
I will post up a cal as soon as I make some changes. Thanks guys.
I'm not sure how weak the auto trans is in the HHR. I know it's different than the Sky. I'm running 28+psi on mine through an efr7163 on e47 and meth with 25 degrees timing up top. I haven't messed with the tune in a long time. I used to base my gains by logging times all over the map but don't have much time to tinker anymore but with the way it is currently set up, it has no problem leaving Cobra's, 392's, Vettes, etc. In the rear view mirror so I can't justify messing with it. Last time I logged it, it was flowing 49 pouds of air for what that's worth.
Another forum member has an HHR running low 12's here but I don't recall his name or setup but do remember he was running e47.
Last edited by JimmyS; 04-14-2016 at 08:46 PM.
Shane,
Your PE table looks rich and if you can get it on the dyno and lean it out a bit, you'll find some more power there. I know everyone's setup is different but when I was running the 6758 on 91 octane fuel, the richest I ever tuned was .86 in the 100% column. You've probably seen it written before that these engines don't like it so rich and not only will you find more power by leaning it out but you'll get better mileage to boot.
Regarding your trans - does it downshift hard at all? When you get the engine dialed in, you can take some of your shift times and reduce them a bit to make it shift quicker. I've seen a few different ways to tune the trans for the LNF's but haven't seen one the way yours is set up. I'm no expert but it doesn't make sense to me to have your full throttle shift speed for Normal and Pattern A different from each other and while it might not make a difference, most of the tunes I've seen (including mine) have the last to columns (in your case 93.7 and 100%) matching in the Part Throttle Shift and Full Throttle Shift. I know the computer thinks faster than we can but it seems that yours has to do more thinking than necessary in my opinion.
If you really want to make some more power and have e85 available anywhere near you, try it. I've been running e47 for a long time now and will hopefully never go back to premium gas because the difference is amazing.
I've learned quite a bit from the people that have helped me with my tune(s) over the years and have seen many different approaches to tuning this platform but don't consider myself an expert by any means and probably never will as I don't have much time to devote to tuning but if I see something that I "think" I can help with, I will definitely try to help. That's the biggest reason for having a forum like this. Good luck with your tuning efforts.
Last edited by JimmyS; 04-15-2016 at 07:30 PM.
Jimmy Thanks! Currently I'm working on a new cal. The trans tune I have right now has shift times cut in half. I adjusted the shift mph in most places. Right now it's setup I'm shifting into 3rd at 95mph@7k.
I'm thinking of going straight e85 rather than e47. What are your opinions on straight e85 vs e47.
From what I've read (haven't tested), the most benefits come mixtures up to e47. If you've got access to e85, do a 50/50 mix, dial in your MAF, crank up your timing and add some boost and you will be impressed. You'll need to adjust your injector constant to start and if I remember correctly, there is a calculator to get you in the ballpark. You're currently at .02829 and you'll need to go up to .032XX for starters and adjust from there. The most important part is to take small steps and log, log, log. Post up some logs and don't get too carried away and you'll have a great running setup.
Last edited by JimmyS; 04-15-2016 at 11:19 PM.
Does anyone have a link to a write up on how the gain tables work. I'm having some trouble grasping the concepts of them.
Hey guys heres my most recent cal. I know I need to adjust the PE table. Ive got a question on opt spark. When first making adjustments after doing my subtractions. is it best to increase the whole table by a value or is it better to go cell by cell. Ive read the threads but am still slightly confused on the best way to adjust the tables.
For OP Spark, you need to design the entire table with values ranging from -5 to 25. Then add your Spark Table to it. If you don't know how to tune idle, I would just use stock settings for the time being, and adjust everything else.
What specifically on the Gain Tables do you want to know? It's a PID system, but it's not like other systems. When tuning it, some systems require just Prop, some just Prop and Integral. On the LNF they give us all 3. Why? I have no clue because it is not needed. The system moves too quickly in the higher rpms and it makes integral and derivative not necessary. For sake of discussion though, Proportional is the speed at which the system accelerates. Think of boost raising up to your desired level. We will use 25psi for discussion. With just a Proportional Tune, you would have to slow the Prop Table down because if it is too fast it'll shoot past 25psi. We have other tables to control that, so we don't have to actually slow Prop down and we can ask for full power if desired. Integral slows the acceleration down. This table is used for fine tuning. The problem is, it robs you of some power, and it can cause differences in the tune depending on how you set it up, which is why you can just control boost levels with Wastegate and DAL's and just zero out integral. You don't have to zero it out, but you could. Derivative is what controls oscillation. In tuning the system, boost can fluctuate up and down when it should be holding 25psi. You'll see it go over and under 25psi. If the other tables, not the PID Tables, are tuned correctly, then you shouldn't need to worry about this table and you could zero it out. If you are seeing an oscillation, and you can tune it out, then use this table to fix it. Hope that helps.
Mike That Was perfect! Exactly what I needed thanks for the info.
No problem.
Reply With Quote