What table specifically do you guys want broke down? What system? Do we want to cover OP SPARK? Idle? General table smoothness ideas? Come up with something and I'll explain what would be the most valuable to you guys that you guys want. I am officially out of the game now when it comes to tuning and moving on but I figured I'd give some help first. I am still doing my local guys because I love cars. So who has what questions?
Last edited by MikeM173; 02-07-2016 at 02:22 PM.
Oh, keep in mind it is a Friday, so my response might not be today.
Good to see you on here Mike! I recently replaced the EFR6758 with a EFR7163 and have it running great! The 7163 pulls quite a bit harder up top and the spool time is so close to the same that it's not even enough difference to notice. I did have a small problem with the throttle body sticking a couple days ago but it was a temporary problem and luckily easy to fix. I'm still luckily enough to have my brother around so while I am able to find a little time to play with the car, it's not high on my priority list.
I haven't downloaded 3.0 yet as I don't have the time to work on setting up a new scanner and since I feel comfortable enough with the 2.24 scanner and 2.25 editor, I'd hate to download 3.0 and be lost so if you've messed around with 3.0 at all, I would be interested to hear what you think of it.
With me getting out of the game, I haven't yet. I will however be reformatting my hard drive (my computer is corrupting tunes and causing uncontrollable parameters). After I do that, I will be forced to try it out so I can tune the locals.
if you used 2.24 beta it runs the same. the only difference really is that the files are saved under a newer file type and thus do not work off the earlier versions.
there are a few new features like flash history which tracks the changes you made on every flash so you can choose a previous flash to revert to which is key for what mike is currently experiencing hahhah
it doesnt really take that long to build a scanner config now that it has auto table axis recognition.
2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman
I may load it on my 2nd tuning laptop and play with it a bit when I get the time.
I'd like to see a further layman's breakdown of mapping out SOI in relation to cam and ignition timing. I'm not a math wiz but with the right 'push', can figure most things out.
Thanks Mike
09 RY Cobalt SS Coupe - 19K miles - Bolt ons + 7163 ZFR, HP tuned on ethanol
Sold - 09 SRTC Cobalt SS Sedan
Totaled - 09 VR Cobalt SS Sedan
Sold - 09 RY Cobalt SS Sedan
T-Man, my computer is updating and I am on my phone. Tomorrow I will type it up for you. That one will probably be a long write-up, but I'll see if I can get some tables and some pictures possibly to help out best.
Thanks Mike! Looking forward to your input.Originally Posted by MikeM173
09 RY Cobalt SS Coupe - 19K miles - Bolt ons + 7163 ZFR, HP tuned on ethanol
Sold - 09 SRTC Cobalt SS Sedan
Totaled - 09 VR Cobalt SS Sedan
Sold - 09 RY Cobalt SS Sedan
T-Man, I created an excel spreadsheet a while back that auto-calculates injector window based off of cam tables, ignition, and SOI. Maybe that could help you.
I added it here to CobaltOverbooster's explanation so that you can further understand it. Just go to the INJ PW MAX Calculator to see the COpy/paste part of the spreadsheet where you can input your tune data.
LNF Angle Calculator.xlsx
Start of Injection Angle - Ignition Advance = Maximum Degrees of Crank Rotation allowed for fuel injection
Degrees of Crank rotation * Revolutions Per Minute in milliseconds = Maximum amount of INJ PW allowed at that given RPM.
When your commanded INJ PW is greater than the available time to spray the fuel you have to make a few decisions (which can either be made independently of each other or in any combination you deem necessary and safe):
1. Increase Fuel Pressure when possible to squeeze more fuel out per MS
2. Push back SOI a little earlier to give you room to spray (you will notice by playing with the values in my excel sheet that this will yield you minor adjustments)
3. Retard Ignition Advance to allow more MS of spray time (equally as effective/ineffective as starting SOI sooner, though doing this will obviously cause a decrease in potential power)
4. Command a leaner AFR if possible to request less fuel to be sprayed, which results in the fuel being sprayed for a shorter period of time after SOI begins.
I started a new thread with some basic info T-Man. We can add to it if need be, but I wanted to make sure the basics were there. I also did not want to cloud up this thread with all of the how to's, which would have made everyone shift through the pages to figure stuff out. I will just start new threads when people want more info.
Steve, thank you for taking the time to post and explain this. I need to tinker around with it to get a better understanding. One thing I didn't notice on the spreadsheet was a location for the intake/exhaust cam positions. Very interesting how much of an effect spark advance can have on SOI.
Thank you Mike. I greatly appreciate you and Steve posting what you have thus far. Much like you alluded to, I've been making changes to my axis inputs on many different tables relating to overall torque production/reduction but never fully understood SOI. I'll ask questions in your thread.
09 RY Cobalt SS Coupe - 19K miles - Bolt ons + 7163 ZFR, HP tuned on ethanol
Sold - 09 SRTC Cobalt SS Sedan
Totaled - 09 VR Cobalt SS Sedan
Sold - 09 RY Cobalt SS Sedan
One thing I will say is I have seen some crazy high Injector Spray times and I have yet to see them hit the spark timing. Generally you will see fuel pressure drop long before that, so unless your setup is causing fuel pressure to remain up, and you are creating enough power to demand that much fuel, you would not need to worry about spark timing vs injection angle. If there is a log out there that shows otherwise, I would love to see it. Is it possible? Yes, but I feel you would either have to be wreck less with the tables, or purposely try to cause the issue.
I have been wrong in the past, but that is my 2 cents on the subject.
I will however say, spark timing does play a huge role in the matter. Direct Injection is designed in a number of ways, which includes pressures and time for atomization etc. That being said, even if the fuel does not meet the spark, you may not give the system enough time to run efficiently. I tried finding the numbers specifically for the LNF, but GM would not release them to me, regardless of who I called. I'm not really an important person, nor do I possess a need to know. Oh well.
i will add a file here and there about what i found but generally speaking most setups, mechanically speaking, are not setup to spin past 7200 rpm.
now if you ran pump gas the SOI shortest time of 324.8* will run the shortest injection window time which is 7.1 ms before it sprays at a timing event set to 17* advance.
if you open the window up to 360*, longest SOI window, then the injection time can push out to 7.9 ms before it sprays at a timing event set to 17* advance.
now take into effect e85 requiring 30% additional fuel on top of that. the spray times (ms) would expand naturally to accommodate more fuel under the same rail pressure as with gasoline. ignition timing isnt normally limited to 15-17* as gasoline is which means people push between 20-26* further shortening the delta between SOI and Ignition Advance. In a few cases i have calculated e85 overlapping the ignition event by as far as 1 ms on stock SOI table with max dyno ignition advance. once SOI, Rail pressure, and some minor retard from max ignition came into play those same motors made more power. than when on a gas tune converted to e85. you can offset some ignition advance by raising the SOI. By having more fuel in the cylinder you can 1) raise the pre-ignition pressure up a smidgen(aids in burn rate), 2) have more fuel and air pre-mixed and ready to go pre-burn and 3) limit the amount of post ignition torching effect which changes the loading characteristics on the rotating assembly (the ideal of which would be to have no after spray so the cylinder can burn evenly without any forces acting on the flame front mid-burn).
Last edited by cobaltssoverbooster; 02-09-2016 at 02:06 PM.
2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman
Hey guys, I've been lurking around here for months. Finally pulled the trigger on the MVPI pro. Not new to tuning, but definitely a noob on the LNF. I've read through all the old threads and realize I'm definitely late to the party! I'm trying to get this 3.0 scanner sorted out. Working off of 5 year old threads doesn't help much...
I'm tuning my wife's 08 HHR SS. I installed a drop in LDK with a bullseye 256ET along with the stage 3 bolt ons from ZZP. Right now I have the 385HP base tune. I'd like to start by dialing in my MAF and slowly tinker with the rest.
The issue I'm having is I upgraded to 3.0 before I tried reading/saving my tune with 2.24. It seems like everyone is just going back to the earlier release.
Once I noticed the scanner was different I wanted to just go back to 2.24. I can't seem read the vcm through the 2.24 editor. I get an error stating the vcm cannot connect when I try reading with 2.24.
I'm not understanding why I can't connect the vcm editor with 2.24. Is it because I've already scanned using 3.0? I bought the license and still have 6 remaining credits.
Thanks in advance for any assistance
I apologize because I literally just put 3.0 on my computer the other day and since I am no longer tuning I have not been able to utilize it "yet". I would recommend starting another thread so more people will see it and can help, and it will also keep this thread clear. Thank you.
That is correct. By using the calculation tables I added to the excel sheet I posted, you can play with SOI angle and Ignition Advance and see that even major changes of 10* or more make very insignificant changes in the allowance for INJ PW ms.
Biggest accommodating factors are #1 Fuel Rail Pressure, and #2 Desired AFR. Since you can only lean out the Desired Lambda so much, there is a limit there on how much you can use that to aid you. All the more reason though NOT to run a richer than optimal AFR. You can play with commanded fuel rail pressure, which I recommend increasing a little bit at higher RPMs anyways.
back when beta was out they forced a interface module reflash as part of installation and connection process. if they included it again in 3.0 it is possible the reflash forces you to keep the current 3.0 software.
2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman
What tables need to be changed to change rev limit on lnf
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