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Thread: How to set up EIO when you have a voltage offset

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by bullygoat
    First off, you're better of doing a fixed voltage check on both sensors and see which one is closer to commanded vs. actual. Just set both AFR output voltages to the same. I usually set it up at 1.0, 2.0 etc. votages and then log raw voltage to get my offset. In the LS1 you can't vary the output of the injectors individually so you really only need the second WB to make sure there in nothing mechanically wrong with the engine. Then just set up a custom PID for the more accurate of the two sensors and start tuning.

    Tim
    Thanks for the input

    I did go out and check the EIO input voltages (non running) as I am using the serial interface, just pulled the plug out of the HPT interface and measure voltages on the plug pin.

    INPUT 1 = 5.78 DCV
    INPUT 2 = 5.77 DCV

    so if my input voltages are so close, why the different outputs from EIO??
    Or since I have selected both INPUT 1 and 2 for LC-1 PID is that having an effect?
    2004 GTO M6, 403, Callies, compstar, wiseco, QTP HV oil pump, QTP 2 piece timing cover, EDC custom AFR 235's, LS6 intake, P1SC-1 Procharger maxed @ 13psi, 224/232 600/600 114 EDC custom cam, JBA shortie headers (thanks California) custom boost referenced return style fuel system with surge tank, walbro 255, staged magnafuel 4303, Dual LC-1, Dual Aeroforce Interceptor gages, Nexus fP and boost gages.

  2. #42
    Senior Tuner S2H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b727pic
    Thanks for the input

    I did go out and check the EIO input voltages (non running) as I am using the serial interface, just pulled the plug out of the HPT interface and measure voltages on the plug pin.

    INPUT 1 = 5.78 DCV
    INPUT 2 = 5.77 DCV

    so if my input voltages are so close, why the different outputs from EIO??
    Or since I have selected both INPUT 1 and 2 for LC-1 PID is that having an effect?

    first off..if you are havng a voltage of more than 5 volts..you may want to change the settings on your wideband outputs...
    teh EIO is designed for 0~5 volts...
    I'm sure its possible they were built with a little breather room....but I wouldnt risk it

    assuming your PID's are set up to be both as AFR then they would average in your AFR PID and AFR Error PID's
    when you have 2 banks...unfortunately...they are never the same

    one way to eliminate some grounding issues...
    take heater grounds to the same spot on the block or chassis or even to your narrowband conector heater ground...
    take your signal grounds and signal reference wires and make sure they are all tied together..and then take those all to the EIO ground...

    this should eliminate most of not all of your grounding issues...
    if you stil have issues then try taking all of your grounds to the pcm ground...otherwise known as the ground pin on the obd2 port for the inside of the car connection...just skip the EIO all together in this method..
    -Scott -

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by soundengineer
    first off..if you are havng a voltage of more than 5 volts..you may want to change the settings on your wideband outputs...
    teh EIO is designed for 0~5 volts...
    I'm sure its possible they were built with a little breather room....but I wouldnt risk it

    assuming your PID's are set up to be both as AFR then they would average in your AFR PID and AFR Error PID's
    when you have 2 banks...unfortunately...they are never the same

    one way to eliminate some grounding issues...
    take heater grounds to the same spot on the block or chassis or even to your narrowband conector heater ground...
    take your signal grounds and signal reference wires and make sure they are all tied together..and then take those all to the EIO ground...

    this should eliminate most of not all of your grounding issues...
    if you stil have issues then try taking all of your grounds to the pcm ground...otherwise known as the ground pin on the obd2 port for the inside of the car connection...just skip the EIO all together in this method..

    That is what is so bizarre....both LC1's are set for:

    0 = 10.0:1
    5 = 18.0:1

    The table in HPT scanner is showing the

    LH: 4.73 DCV
    RH: 4.93 DCV

    When set to read AFR in the scanner table with the engine not running the AFR readout is 21.57??

    using a DMM (autoranging) both EIO 1 and EIO 2 inputs are showing voltages of 5.78 and 5.77 respectively. These readings are being measured right on the EIO (serial) connector.

    I just tried again and came up with the same readings. Something is really whacked out......??????

    Tomorrow is LC-1 day. Will take apart all of my connections and inspect for routing issues. Also will come up with a good set of DMM test leads as mine are hodge podge at best.......

    This is becoming frustrating
    Last edited by b727pic; 03-05-2007 at 10:56 PM.
    2004 GTO M6, 403, Callies, compstar, wiseco, QTP HV oil pump, QTP 2 piece timing cover, EDC custom AFR 235's, LS6 intake, P1SC-1 Procharger maxed @ 13psi, 224/232 600/600 114 EDC custom cam, JBA shortie headers (thanks California) custom boost referenced return style fuel system with surge tank, walbro 255, staged magnafuel 4303, Dual LC-1, Dual Aeroforce Interceptor gages, Nexus fP and boost gages.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by soundengineer
    take heater grounds to the same spot on the block or chassis or even to your narrowband conector heater ground...
    take your signal grounds and signal reference wires and make sure they are all tied together..and then take those all to the EIO ground...
    Don't use the narrow band connector as the heater ground, it is a switched ground in the ECM and wil fry your LC1. Ask me how I know.

    Also, you may want ot try a different meter is yours is reading over 5 volts for the lc1s. I don't believe they are capable of outputing that much voltage.

    Tim
    GM World Class Technician
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  5. #45
    Not sure I understand any of this but here was today's findings;

    after making some test leads with the proper size pins to fit the serial EIO connector, I set about taking some voltage readings. Not sure what happened with my first set of readings, but with the proper test leads things went much better.

    I started to scale in 1/10th volt increments, that quickly became tiresome and after 1 volt, went to .5 volt increments.

    1.0 DCV = .992
    1.5 DCV = 1.492
    2.0 DCV = 1.990
    2.5 DCV = 2.46
    3.0 DCV = 2.97
    3.5 DCV = 3.46
    4.0 DCV = 3.96
    4.5 DCV = 4.45
    5.0 DCV = 4.95

    Using "cyclone chris" spreadsheet this comes out to an average of .026 offset.

    I calibrated the LC-1 for a 0-5 volts 10-18 AFR range. then made a custom PID with the calcs noted in Chris spread sheet.

    Ambient temp today is 79*, the scanner table raw voltage concurs with the voltmeter with a 4.72 Voltage I was getting a 17.6 AFR reading. The car had not been started today at all so the pipes should have been at ambient temp.

    This is much better than the info I was getting before, when I was reading a 21 XX on a cold motor even though the setting were set as above.

    I did have a major discovery, it seems my RH sensor has gone bad. Although in early testing it showed not faults, by the end of the LH calibration, the RH status light would never go steady, just when it should go steady the blink rate would double, yet never have a 2 sec pause??? according to innovate they think its the sensor. Ordered one on line, will see if that fixes its issue or not.

    any comments or suggestions are welcome. As I am undertaking a 2Bar SD tune, I want rock solid AFR readings!!!
    2004 GTO M6, 403, Callies, compstar, wiseco, QTP HV oil pump, QTP 2 piece timing cover, EDC custom AFR 235's, LS6 intake, P1SC-1 Procharger maxed @ 13psi, 224/232 600/600 114 EDC custom cam, JBA shortie headers (thanks California) custom boost referenced return style fuel system with surge tank, walbro 255, staged magnafuel 4303, Dual LC-1, Dual Aeroforce Interceptor gages, Nexus fP and boost gages.

  6. #46
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    I'm pulling my hair out with all this...(using LM-1)

    I tried the offset formula thingy, and wasn't getting what I thought I should be seeing...so, I pulled the sensor back out today and re-calibrated and checked voltages.

    Free Air = 20.9
    volts = 4.89

    So, I went and programmed 0v = 10 and 4.894 = 20.9 - HPT read 17.9 at the SAME time!
    When I go check Raw Voltages again, HPT is seeing 4.82ish volts - so not even a full 1/10 of an offset, but 3 AFR points different?

    I know I'm probably missing something stupid/small here...WTF?

  7. #47
    Senior Tuner S2H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgm1979
    I'm pulling my hair out with all this...(using LM-1)

    I tried the offset formula thingy, and wasn't getting what I thought I should be seeing...so, I pulled the sensor back out today and re-calibrated and checked voltages.

    Free Air = 20.9
    volts = 4.89

    So, I went and programmed 0v = 10 and 4.894 = 20.9 - HPT read 17.9 at the SAME time!
    When I go check Raw Voltages again, HPT is seeing 4.82ish volts - so not even a full 1/10 of an offset, but 3 AFR points different?

    I know I'm probably missing something stupid/small here...WTF?
    post what your config is...
    post what represents 0 volts
    what represents 5 volts and I'll help you with the offset..
    lets just make sure you have the right formula first
    -Scott -

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgm1979
    I'm pulling my hair out with all this...(using LM-1)

    I tried the offset formula thingy, and wasn't getting what I thought I should be seeing...so, I pulled the sensor back out today and re-calibrated and checked voltages.

    Free Air = 20.9
    volts = 4.89

    So, I went and programmed 0v = 10 and 4.894 = 20.9 - HPT read 17.9 at the SAME time!
    When I go check Raw Voltages again, HPT is seeing 4.82ish volts - so not even a full 1/10 of an offset, but 3 AFR points different?

    I know I'm probably missing something stupid/small here...WTF?
    try this volts/.4894 + 10.15 see how it works

  9. #49
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    LM-1 is programmed:
    0v = 10.0
    4.894v = 20.9

    Raw Voltages
    LM-1 -> HPT
    0 -> .049
    .5 -> .586
    1.0 -> 1.089
    2.5 -> 2.59
    5.0 -> 4.89

    As for the HPT Scanner config, I used the standard LM-1 PID, as well as the "offset" user config with .625 + 10.16 (the math we used PRIOR to today's re-cal)

  10. #50
    Senior Tuner S2H's Avatar
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    correct actual formula should be volts / 0.449 + 10

    figuring offset should be done by setting both low and high afr raneges to the same AFR and then measuring at HPT and moving AFR offset over until it lines up
    I like to set my voltage so that it equals what my AFR range would be at 14.70 which should = 2.110 volts(I think I did my math right..LOL)
    so set 10AFR and 20.9AFR to be 2.110volts
    then push your +10 afr around in the formula until it matches 14.7
    when it does...its close enough...then set it back to 0~4.894 volts

    if its not close enough then you might have the wrong wideband as none of them are truely super accurate and you still have the delay time of your cylinder to the wideband length..so its still only as accurate as how long it takes to go that distance..LOL
    Last edited by S2H; 03-18-2007 at 09:07 PM.
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  11. #51
    Senior Tuner S2H's Avatar
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    Fwiw
    4.894/10.9 = 0.4489908256880733944954128440367
    -Scott -

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Street Legal
    try this volts/.4894 + 10.15 see how it works
    That was closer...I still think it's off a little, but definitely closer than it HAS been.

    I had to give up for the night - lost track of time, but I will definitely re-visit this tomorrow...I NEED to figure this thing out, starting to REALLY piss me off!

    SoundEngineer - just read your post...I will try that out tomorrow. Guess I missed the "new" formula, or perhaps I'm just not understanding all this enough.

    I'll admit - my AFR sensor is a little further downstream than I would have liked, maybe 2 ft from the end of the collector. ???
    Last edited by mgm1979; 03-18-2007 at 09:16 PM.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by mgm1979
    That was closer...I still think it's off a little, but definitely closer than it HAS been.

    I had to give up for the night - lost track of time, but I will definitely re-visit this tomorrow...I NEED to figure this thing out, starting to REALLY piss me off!
    try this one now lol cuz i missed some thing in the first one hope it works this time volts /.4545 + 10 it's like what sound engineer made

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Street Legal
    try this one now lol cuz i missed some thing in the first one hope it works this time volts /.4545 + 10 it's like what sound engineer made
    I really dont know where you are getting these #'s from...

    should be

    Volts / (4.894/10.9) + 10
    Volts / (Voltage Range/AFR Range) + Minimum AFR represented
    4.894/10.9 rounded to 3 digits is .449

    and Voltage range is always figured from 0 volts and AFR Range has to be figured from what 0v would represent

    must start with the correct formula to even know for sure what the offsets are..
    then we can push teh formula around to get what we need for offsets
    -Scott -

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by soundengineer
    I really dont know where you are getting these #'s from...

    should be

    Volts / (4.894/10.9) + 10
    Volts / (Voltage Range/AFR Range) + Minimum AFR represented
    4.894/10.9 rounded to 3 digits is .449

    and Voltage range is always figured from 0 volts and AFR Range has to be figured from what 0v would represent

    must start with the correct formula to even know for sure what the offsets are..
    then we can push teh formula around to get what we need for offsets
    it's the same dude .45 or .449 it's close enough but what i did is i forgot the .9 lol 20.9 4.894/10 forgot the .9 so thats why i got .454 LoL no problem

  16. #56
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    the first one was really what I didnt know what you had missed..LOL
    -Scott -

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by soundengineer
    the first one was really what I didnt know what you had missed..LOL
    i was sleeping when i did the first one LooL

  18. #58
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    so - if at 0v, HPT is reading .049...I should subtract that from my 20.9 AFR voltage (4.894) in order to get the REAL voltage range, right?

    This would give me .444 + 10

    Let's see if that works.

    Well...with the car off (after having run it 5 min ago for a couple mins...) LM-1 read 15.5/6 and HPT reads 15.8/9...

    What the hell am I missing here?

  19. #59
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    calling you here shortly...I was eating dinner when you tried to call


    stick with the 0.449 +10
    I'll walk you through it when I call

    you cant change the voltage cause the formula will be skewed...
    -Scott -

  20. #60
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    thanks again for all the help...lookin' forward to getting some logs tomorrow and FINALLY getting this thing tuned right.