Wierd surging issue, follows the O2 sensors swinging like they are overcorrecting

[GHuggins]

Michael. Can they add any of the tables or was it just that one?

[Michael_D]

They could not add the tables that were not in the op system. I do have the Closed Loop Mode vs. Airflow and Closed Loop Proportional Base vs Airflow Mode. Not the other(s).

[will15]

schpenxel or Michael d have either of you guys used the table closed loop mode vs air flow. Can you shed any light on what the numbers represent in this table.

[Nate007]

If you watch the video link in my earlier post, it explains the proportional fueling, and the way it makes it sound, it is there only for catalytic function...
It's rich/lean switching actually just puts fuel/oxygen into the exhaust to stimulate catalytic burn? That what I got from it, and it's my understanding that the ecu also compensates for that and doesn't need the switching voltage for operation. It recognises an "error" proportional to what is programmed. For instance - if the switching voltage(s) are 450mv +/-, it knows how much fuel it's using to drive fuel around those numbers. If the ecu's switching should produce a high reading of 600mv and a low of 300mv, a voltage of 650mv would be a .050 rich condition, does that make sense? That's what I understand the video to be explaining, and it also says that the ecu doesn't need that for anything other than fuel the catalytics?
I'm not an engineer or a scientist, but does anyone who understands this better than me subscribe to the videos theories/teachings? If that's the case, cars with no cars could be easily tuned to not have the PIA "surging"..

[Michael_D]

That's a good video. Now that I've seen it, it makes perfect sense. Hell, just look at how much emissions have driven other changes to an engine, right down to journal bearing alloys being used today.... So knowing the Cat needs both CO and O2 for the bed to function, I see why there is a need to get fuel into a rich/lean condition. The video does not however talk about proportional tables. At least I didn't hear it. But if you do not have any cats installed, then I don't see any reason why you couldn't kill the switching, if you could figure out how to do it.

[will15]

I totally under stand the operation of a cat and 02's, been a mechanic and auto elect for 14 years now you learn that stuff in second year of an apprenticeship. The ecu must have the switching from the 02's not just for catalytic function but for closed loop function. The ecu will use the rich, lean from short term trims to drive 02's that's how you get a perfect 14.7 stoich . My question is does any body know what the numbers represent in the closed loop mode vs air flow table.

[schpenxel]

You'd have to send support an email asking if they can look into it. You will also need to send them your file, so they can verify whether or not GM included the programming. If GM did not, then HPT cannot add it.... I just went through that exorcise, asking if they could add the "Closed Loop Proportional Gain vs. O2 Error" table to my operating system (E38). The response was "Sorry, we can't add it".

I put in a request for HPT to add access to some of the closed loop proportional tables for E40's. They said they put it in their queue, but no ETA as of yet. I'm hoping it's something that is accessible.

[mourat]

Great read I am certainthe proportional table ix in e38 because i have it in tunercat they dont sell their products anymore but support it i asked them to add it a while back and they did ill double check

[mourat]

Here are the tables I see in T****cats for the E38 tell me what you think:

MAX STFT Integral Term. Vs. Coolant Temp
MIN STFT Integral Term. Vs. Coolant Temp

Rcih/Lean 02 volts Thres VS airlfow Mode vs Bank
Rich/Lean 02 voltage threhold offset vs cool temp
Fast 02 filter Coeff. Vs. Airflow mode vs. Bank
Closed Loop Integrator Delay vs. Airflow mode - Rich
Closed Loop Integrator Delay vs. Airflow mode - Lean
Closed Loop Integrator Delay vs. Airflow mode - Rich - HI RPM
Closed Loop Integrator Delay vs. Airflow mode - Lean - HI RPM
Closed Loop proportional Term Vs. Airflow mode
Closed Loop proportional Term Limit Vs. Airflow mode
Closed Prop. Term Gain Vs. Airflow mode - Lean
Closed Prop. Term Gain Vs. Airflow mode - Rich

Cool feature: Baro Update enable % throttle area vs. RPM (so Baro doesn't update under boost)

I alos like CCP Flow rate vs Airflow to control when EVAP purges my favorite cuz I turn it off at idle this way my injectors down have to pulse super low because of vapors .

[schpenxel]

Can you get the list of things available on an e40 in the same program? Then I can send a list to HPT to bug them about adding the important ones.

[mourat]

I don't have a 2005 file unfortunately as they are all *.BIN format not HPL so unless someone emails me a BIN version or if I had a 2005 I could download the file from but I don't.

[schpenxel]

I don't have a 2005 file unfortunately as they are all *.BIN format not HPL so unless someone emails me a BIN version or if I had a 2005 I could download the file from but I don't.

Ah, well, that sucks! I'll dig around and see if I can find any E40 .bin files. Not sure I'll have much luck, but worth a shot

[schpenxel]

Well.. maybe I'm in luck. Here's a bin file supposedly from an E40 GTO

gto.bin

[schpenxel]

I put in a request for HPT to add access to some of the closed loop proportional tables for E40's. They said they put it in their queue, but no ETA as of yet. I'm hoping it's something that is accessible.

Ok, HPT gets a lot of praise for this one

I just got an email that this request has been completed and implemented in the 2.25 beta that is available for download now. I just checked, and I have access to Closed loop proportional base vs. airflow mode and closed loop proportional limit tables now.

Can't beat that.

Any others I need access to?

[mourat]

Yeah find out the ones I listed above I changed around and made the Itegrators respond slower or faster to changes in O2's and also I noticed OEM has the settings different for the left and right to react. I made them all the same so now my Bank1 & Bank2 are the same and change at the same time not one delayed more than the other.

[schpenxel]

k I'll try to find the rest. Here's my wish list so far. I've been mainly looking for parameters in other ECM's tunes as I know exactly what they are called that way.

I'll try to find more of the ones you listed above. Do you know if these numbers like "12481" come from the ECM or somewhere else? I'm trying to give HPT those too, I'm hoping it makes it easier for them to add if they have more info.

12470 - Closed Loop Integrator Delay vs. Airflow Mode
12481 - Closed Loop Proportional Gain vs. O2 Error
12484 - Closed Loop Proportional Mult vs. ECT
12486 - Closed Loop Proportional Limit
12403 - Power Enrich EQ Ratio vs. RPM (ALCOHOL)

33030 - Desired Throttle Area - A
33031 - Desired Throttle Area - B
33032 - Desired Throttle Area - C

3034 - Spark Airmass Blend

221 - Injector Gain Enable
12313 - Injector Gain vs. Cylinder

[schpenxel]

Bill is going to kill me when I send in this list, it's like 19 things now.

If they just do the O2 proportional stuff & the EQ ratio alcohol one (if available) I'll be happy. The other stuff would just be nice to mess with

[Michael_D]

Is it even possible to swap an E38 out with an E40 in a 2008 vette?

[schpenxel]

I'd love to swap mine over to an E38, but I assumed it wasn't worth the work. I know the pins themselves on all of the wiring is different between the two ECM's, and I have no desire to re-crimp that many wires.

[mourat]

I'm sure it's not difficult to swap E40 to E38 I've done an A6 to M6 conversion on mine which was just as if not more involved with the differences in wiring harnesses and BCMs, also I'm not able to open the GTO.bin file as I only have Y-body definition file so for corvettes to open although I'm sure they are the same inside unlike HPT I need to have the proper definition file to open it and they do not offer support for a 2005 C6 only all C5 and 2006+ C6