I think we are all struggling with the Fords, the GMs and Chryslers are no problem, we need to put our heads together and come up with a solution.
I have an 11 F-150 with and Airaid air intake, ARH lt w cats stock cat back that won't go green.
I think we are all struggling with the Fords, the GMs and Chryslers are no problem, we need to put our heads together and come up with a solution.
I have an 11 F-150 with and Airaid air intake, ARH lt w cats stock cat back that won't go green.
The only system not messed with is the only one that won't set lol
When I posted the tripling thing earlier, I was just going off the top of my head. It's been a while since I've had to mess with a Copperhead with no or high flow cats and emissions tests but here's what I have saved from 2014, the last time I had trouble with a Copperhead. These descriptions are probably a little bit off but are the best I could come up with at the time. Someone who's more familiar with the OBD Docs or patents could probably describe these more accurately...Originally Posted by Jn2
First Input = Thresholds to set a fast ready monitor, used when cats are replaced to verify functionality quickly. I decrease these numbers to near 0 for high flow cats.
No Fault = "I think" these are the values used to check o2 response rate for o2 and heated o2 monitors. I increase these x3. This allows long tubes to pass o2 and heated o2 monitors after adaptive transport delay is learned.
Normal Threshold = Normal running thresholds to verify cat efficiency. I decrease these to near 0 for high flow cats.
Step Change Logic Limit = Values that dictate a large change in efficiency to heavily influence weighted averages during catalyst testing. I decrease these to near 0 for high flow cats.
Thanks, I did get some outside help recently via PM on some values to try, they are in line with what you just posted. I am going to try them and will report back on whether they work. If they do the simple way of getting Coyote's to pass would be to adjust those thresholds.
Now the only draw back to this is those thresholds are not defined on all strategies, so a change of strategy would be needed(which is what I did to be able to test on my own personal vehicle). This of course means you would need to license the same vehicle twice along with the strategy that has the thresholds define(assuming you don't have unlimited licenses alread)
Having the issue with o2 ready and heater ready. Everything else is set. 2012 with off road x-pipe. Due for emissions this month. Did as described in this thread, and still can't get them to set ready. Going to keep driving, and hope it switches as I don't want to swap the xpipe out just for testing.
You can try what WITT posted, setting thresholds to zero. Im testing these values right now but only do ~5 miles worth of driving daily. Today I have a 200 mile round trip planned so I should know by tomorrow if they work
I did the values you had earlier in the thread, and only have ~180 miles on it. I travel almost nonstop so hard to put miles on when I'm no where near home.
Thanks to everyone here who has in the past or is currently putting in hard work and experimentation to figure this issue out. Cats or no Cats it would be nice to get the monitors to pass without it being such a huge pita.
So this is from a s550 I tuned last month, he came by for a update to his fan settings to work with a 170* tstat and I used this opportunity to check his monitors. For him I tripled the threshold values and set P0420/0430 to no error reported and it looks all his monitors completed with out issue:
Mods:
- Airaid intake
- Flex fuel(e75 inferred)
- Pypes long tubes
- Pypes mid pipe(off road)
- Catback exhaust
monitor s550.PNG
Here are the values for this car...
settings.PNG
What I also noticed is the s550 has 6 threshold tables and the S197 has 4, here is the difference between the s197 and the s550, notice the s550 has more tables, and tripling all the values for the s550 worked, but not on the s197, wonder if there are more undefined tables for the thresholds.
s197 s550.PNG
I am still putting miles on my personal S197, so havent been able to confirm if zero'ing out the thresholds work, but so far all monitors except o2 and o2 heater have completed on it. Will check again in a few hours to see if 02 and heater show complete yet
Last edited by Jn2; 08-08-2017 at 06:25 PM.
Here is how my personal vehicle is looking, waiting on o2 and o2 heater to complete or fail, no CELs, or Freeze frame data at the moment...This is on flex fuel as well(e85.5 inferred). If only we could disable one of these monitors...I havent been able to figure out how to disable the o2 Heater monitor with out also disabling o2 monitor, which disabled the o2's all together(they won't even log in the scanner, come up as empty with no data)
IMG_0462.jpg
O2 heater and O2 monitor was completed by getting the O2 sensor to 1600f to trigger the monitor function. Steady state driving 42-48 mph under 2000 RPM, 8-15 minutes. Not exactly easy to do depending on what roads are around. I did it on a 55mph highway 4 lane at 48mph, I was getting run over with almost everyone doing 70+ lol.
ORX no cats. Not tuned by me.
I had to triple the No Fault Threshold on an s197 in post 66, all others I put near zero. I'm pretty sure the No Fault Threshold correlates with this portion of the Ford OBD doc. Kig4qCx.jpg
I'll try that next, did you change anything in the exhaust temp/tip temp tables by any chance?
Engine>General> o2 Monitor>Tip Temp
Engine>Fuel>COT>Exhaust Temp
I have some old tuning docs SCT sent me when they first started supporting the coyote. They're on my laptop at work. I know they stated to modify those for long tubes but the changes they recommended were real small. Again, its really old info before we had access to transport delay. I'll post the info tomorrow morning.
Looking at what I have saved, the changes they recommended aren't actually available in HPTuners. They are temperature loss at forward o2 sensors. They recommended a 50% increase to the time constant and temp loss tables. However they also recommend a small change in one of the lower tip temp columns, reducing the far left column by 100.
I wonder if there is a way to get those added...Eric if you are reading this, any ideas?
Good work on all this guys. I'm considering using HPT on some of my cars (GT500 and C5 vette) and would like to make sure it does what I need before I start blowing cash.
Looks like the vette would be a breeze but the GT500 would be a pain. I'm currently using the old stacked non-fouler method to pass with an off-road mid pipe.
Can you pull mode 6 data and see which test isn't completing?
No, all we can see is the monitors as seen in previous pics
So update on tripling the no fault threshold...Catalyst, o2 monitor and o2 heater still show up incomplete when I check them with the scanner and when I log the OBD channel they come up as "Not Enabled/Complete". This is with the monitors enabled as seen in the other image and the no fault tripled...when I zeroed out the no fault catalyst did complete and it was only o2 and o2 heater that did not...
monitors.PNGsettings.PNG
I attached a datalog showing idle...trims are +/- 2%
Next things I am going to try:
- play with o2 tip temp and exhaust temp
- Set ALL o2 codes to no error reported, this seems to work for catalyst monitor so I'm wondering if this will work for o2 monitors
EDIT: with no changes to tune the Catalyst did finally come up as complete...will give that set up a few more days to see how it does before i move to changing o2 tip temp
Last edited by Jn2; 08-12-2017 at 08:44 PM.
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