Ghost cam issues - 13 mustang GT

[AKDMB]

Does setting the ghost cam tune up like it is mentioned here just force the cams to go to whatever you set in the phasing limit vs eot table? If so it would seem like it would force the car to run these cam timing values during normal drivability. Is this true?

[GapRider]

I followed Toyoguru's guide which basically opened up some limits to allow you to change cam timing, then cam timing parameters changed just for idle conditions (Mapped points 0 and 1 I presume) and then some other tweaks to help it idle. I got pretty good, not perfect, results following his guide so I'm grateful for it. To answer you question directly, to the best of my very limited knowledge, just changing the VCT Max vs EOT alone won't change your cam timing.

[toyoguru]

Does setting the ghost cam tune up like it is mentioned here just force the cams to go to whatever you set in the phasing limit vs eot table? If so it would seem like it would force the car to run these cam timing values during normal drivability. Is this true?

The ghost cam tune requires enabling cam timing changes at lower RPM values, the EOT table is for temperature allowed before VCT can activate, but the cam timing is still as commanded per mapped point, so there aren't drivability issues or power loss. The changes required for the ghost cam are at/near idle and have nothing do to with rpm above that.

[AKDMB]

The ghost cam tune requires enabling cam timing changes at lower RPM values, the EOT table is for temperature allowed before VCT can activate, but the cam timing is still as commanded per mapped point, so there aren't drivability issues or power loss. The changes required for the ghost cam are at/near idle and have nothing do to with rpm above that.

OK, so that's how the tune works, thanks for the info.

[Slowb00st]

Been playing with the cam tune again, but having issues getting it running with the A/C on, without it is fairly stable. Tried a few different thing without it getting any better including raising the idle rpms, ignition timing, idle airflow. Any tips/recommendations?

Attached a log, the last 1/4 is with the A/C on.

[TuneRS]

I'm learning but I hope these notes help. Maybe we can figure it out together.

I'm playing with my 6spd manual Coyote cam tune. Started with Toyoguru's great guide but now starting over, doing one change at a time to see what affect it has so I can understand better.
I started this morning with just changing the cam timing at Mapped Points 0 and 1 (and upped Max Phasing VCT vs EOT to allow for this) and increasing idle RPM to 750
With these changes only, and the car fully warmed up, it will go into a chop idle only after I blip the throttle.

I logged Spark, RPM, lambda, ETC Torque Request, Torque Source, Spark Source, Throttle Angle Source, Fuel Source, VCT Schedule Mode, Throttle Angle, MAF, Desired MAF, Load, Desired Load from Torque Control, and Cam Angles (Adv/Retard) among other things.

Some things I've noticed:

• Before and after the blip that starts the chop idle:
  
  • I see Torque Src change from Driver Demand to Target N
  • Spark Src change from Idle Feedback to Torque Control
  • Throttle Angle Src stays=Idle Control
  • Fuel Src stays=CL Stoich
  • VCT Schedule Mode stays=Optimal Stability
  • Idle Speed Src stays=Base RPM
  
  
• Car most wants to die after a gentle nudge forward sitting in the driveway-very small throttle at clutch engagement and then clutch back in and foot off throttle. RPM will drop to 400ish and even stall sometimes.
• Initially, throttle Angle and Spark seem to by trying to save the stall because they increase as the RPM is falling, lambda steady around 1.0 and cams stay pretty close to -40/20 where I have them set
• As RPM continues to drop (about 580 RPM), throttle and spark seem to begin to fall with RPM, however, ETC Torque Request, Scheduled Torque and Desired Load continue to increase the whole time RPM is falling.

I want to figure out why RPM doesn't respond to spark and throttle angle at the beginning of the fall. Maybe at that low RPM and the high valve overlap the engine's response is too sluggish. I don't see what else to control at that point to catch the falling RPM, maybe if I could try getting the cams to move back to zero when RPM below 500 for example to make the engine response snappier but I don't even know if that makes sense and I don't know how to do that right now.
Thoughts?

2013 mustang (stock tune).hpt2013 mustang roush ghost cam.hpt

[GapRider]

2013 mustang (stock tune).hpt2013 mustang roush ghost cam.hpt

thanks, let me look those over. Spending lots of time on this stuff, wife is going to divorce me

[GapRider]

Is that the factory stock tune you posted, it is quite a bit different from mine?

[TuneRS]

Is that the factory stock tune you posted, it is quite a bit different from mine?

it is a stock roush stage 3 phase 1 tune, did by chance u see my story on what all is my current problem about the tune working but now dying every time I engage tune? I do not see it in my reply earlier.

[GapRider]

it is a stock roush stage 3 phase 1 tune, did by chance u see my story on what all is my current problem about the tune working but now dying every time I engage tune? I do not see it in my reply earlier.

Your cam tune, right? Let me compare it with mine tomorrow. I still haven't got mine perfect but I've got one cam tune that works OK if I can find it again.

[TuneRS]

yeah. my cam tune basically works fine for a couple key cycles and drives great no stalling.
later in the day after maybe 6 total miles of testing I took the car out for a spin (30 minutes after previous test).
I made it roughly 30 yards and the car stalls. if I key on while moving it instantly stalls it will not idle(however all other rpm ranges are operable)
if im not moving the car will idle fine unless I engage the cam.

this is a summary of my original post which I do not believe showed up.

[GapRider]

yeah. my cam tune basically works fine for a couple key cycles and drives great no stalling.
later in the day after maybe 6 total miles of testing I took the car out for a spin (30 minutes after previous test).
I made it roughly 30 yards and the car stalls. if I key on while moving it instantly stalls it will not idle(however all other rpm ranges are operable)
if im not moving the car will idle fine unless I engage the cam.

this is a summary of my original post which I do not believe showed up.

If I haven't mixed up my tune files, these are all the changes for the best cam tune I have so far. It's not perfect, it never stalled on me but I still don't like how low it lets RPM get sometimes. One thing different I did was to change the VCT for Mapped point 2 in addition to mapped points 0 and 1

First five attachments here. I'll put the rest on the next post

[GapRider]

remaining changes below.

I also attached my tune file but it also has changes for rev limiter, torque stuff, speedo correction etc.
Let me know if it helps you. I still alternate playing with the cam tune and another tune that has stock idle.

[TuneRS]

I corrected my idle from dropping while the cam worked by adding timing to idle spark advanced tables (in gear, P/N, ac on and ac off) until it finally steadied out.

I will take a look at your files as soon as I can and see what I may be doing wrong and hopefully fix it.

Thank you for the attention and detail.

[TuneRS]

remaining changes below.

I also attached my tune file but it also has changes for rev limiter, torque stuff, speedo correction etc.
Let me know if it helps you. I still alternate playing with the cam tune and another tune that has stock idle.

I will be making changes accordingly tomorrow night, thank you so much for all of that, I noticed some issues in my file because of that.

[GapRider]

I will be making changes accordingly tomorrow night, thank you so much for all of that, I noticed some issues in my file because of that.

Try this one out too.

[GapRider]

Been playing with the cam tune again, but having issues getting it running with the A/C on, without it is fairly stable. Tried a few different thing without it getting any better including raising the idle rpms, ignition timing, idle airflow. Any tips/recommendations?

Attached a log, the last 1/4 is with the A/C on.

I looked at your log, it jumps to Mapped point 2 atleast once. I went ahead and put the overlap values in that row too because mine would sometimes do that. What idle RPM are you at, 750? Maybe bump to 800 or 850, I haven't tested mine with AC because it's too cold here. Also, try -35/20 VCT values instead of -40/20, I still get a good chop with that and it seems a little more resistant to stalling than -40/20 Can you post your tune file?

[txcharlie]

yeah. my cam tune basically works fine for a couple key cycles and drives great no stalling.
later in the day after maybe 6 total miles of testing I took the car out for a spin (30 minutes after previous test).
I made it roughly 30 yards and the car stalls. if I key on while moving it instantly stalls it will not idle(however all other rpm ranges are operable)
if im not moving the car will idle fine unless I engage the cam.

this is a summary of my original post which I do not believe showed up.

Do you have Adaptive turned off?

[GapRider]

got email showing someone replied to this thread this morning but I don't see it? Is it showing for you guys? Do I need to clear my cache?

[AKDMB]

No, the last reply I see is from txcharlie 5 days ago.