$75 to whoever can solve my turbo TBSS problem

[blkws6]

Hey guys, I'll send $75 (via paypal, or snail mail if you prefer) to the first person who can tell me what needs to be done to fix my sputtering problem (after I see that it fixes the problem, of course). I have another thread on this problem, but to save you the trouble of reading through it all, I'll try to give a synopsis of everything pertinent to solving the case. This started about 3 months ago so I'm having a little trouble remembering the exact sequence of events.


I had it professionally dyno tuned @ 13psi with stock OS and MAP. I got stuck with an unfinished tune after some poor customer service (whole other story). He got WOT tuned great (about 11.2 afr), but it had a real rough spot around like 60%, but it was fine to drive. About a month later I was rolling down the highway and stomped on the gas pedal, and as soon as it built up some boost it started to sputter really bad. It feels like it drops down to a Prius level of power when the sputtering happens.

So it sputters when boost is built up, and not necessarily 100% throttle. I have found that it seems to NOT do it in 1st or 2nd gear, but only in 3rd and 4th. (maybe just because of greater load, since it spins in 1st and 2nd). Based on my scans, O2 b1 starts switching when it starts to sputter. It is VERY sensitive to knock, and it doesn't really show any KR while sputtering, so I don't think it is leaning out bank1 but rather intermittently shutting the injectors off.


So after a little while of trying to figure out the problem I decided to upgrade to the 2bar OS and MAP, to make life a little easier. Here's where it get weird:
1. About 6 months ago it began to NOT shut off when I would turn the key off. I could turn it off, remove the key, and it would just keep running. I tried everything I could to fix this problem, without success... until I converted to 2 bar, it magically fixed itself!
2. The tranny used to shift VERY hard no matter what I did to any of the shift tables... until I converted to 2 bar, it magically fixed itself! Even though all the trans. tables were the exact same.

But it did not fix the sputtering. I spent about a month messing with hpt and hard parts, but it still sputtered.


And then.......

Since I've been getting nowhere, I decided to go BACK to my 1bar map and tune, even though that's how it was setup when this whole problem started.
But NOW, it doesn't sputter!!!!! I wish I could say "problem solved" and move on, but it's never that simple is it?

As stated above, there is the issue with the shifts, and the "won't-turn-off" problem. AND now the AFR is looking way to lean at WOT, which doesn't make sense, because it was dead on when I had this SAME tune in it a month ago! I don't even know how to tune that crazy 30 section stock VE table.

Here are things I tried to no avail:
-new plugs .028
-new plug wires
-swapped coils from bank 1 to bank 2 (to see if scan showed the problem moving to the other bank)
-swapped injectors from B1 to B2
-checked fuel pressure (cruising=63psi WOT=bout 57psi)
-messed with every parameter that I could possibly think of
-pulled out my hair


Here is the original 1bar tune (no sputter, but has the other problems) and my current 2bar tune(sputters).

Sputtering in boost scan: look near frame 7,700
More sputtering: look near frame 12,500

Thanks!!!

[DSteck]

Tale your valve cover off on the driver side and check your springs.

[BigDaddyCool]

You may need more detailed logs with with o2 switching, and heaps more stuff..... Have you looked at vacuum leaks? Ultimately I would probably just suggest dropping it off somewhere and having a retune done. Usually you'll go from a bad experience to getting it fixed @ another place.

Hey guys, I'll send $75 (via paypal, or snail mail if you prefer) to the first person who can tell me what needs to be done to fix my sputtering problem (after I see that it fixes the problem, of course). I have another thread on this problem, but to save you the trouble of reading through it all, I'll try to give a synopsis of everything pertinent to solving the case. This started about 3 months ago so I'm having a little trouble remembering the exact sequence of events.


I had it professionally dyno tuned @ 13psi with stock OS and MAP. I got stuck with an unfinished tune after some poor customer service (whole other story). He got WOT tuned great (about 11.2 afr), but it had a real rough spot around like 60%, but it was fine to drive. About a month later I was rolling down the highway and stomped on the gas pedal, and as soon as it built up some boost it started to sputter really bad. It feels like it drops down to a Prius level of power when the sputtering happens.

So it sputters when boost is built up, and not necessarily 100% throttle. I have found that it seems to NOT do it in 1st or 2nd gear, but only in 3rd and 4th. (maybe just because of greater load, since it spins in 1st and 2nd). Based on my scans, O2 b1 starts switching when it starts to sputter. It is VERY sensitive to knock, and it doesn't really show any KR while sputtering, so I don't think it is leaning out bank1 but rather intermittently shutting the injectors off.


So after a little while of trying to figure out the problem I decided to upgrade to the 2bar OS and MAP, to make life a little easier. Here's where it get weird:
1. About 6 months ago it began to NOT shut off when I would turn the key off. I could turn it off, remove the key, and it would just keep running. I tried everything I could to fix this problem, without success... until I converted to 2 bar, it magically fixed itself!
2. The tranny used to shift VERY hard no matter what I did to any of the shift tables... until I converted to 2 bar, it magically fixed itself! Even though all the trans. tables were the exact same.

But it did not fix the sputtering. I spent about a month messing with hpt and hard parts, but it still sputtered.


And then.......

Since I've been getting nowhere, I decided to go BACK to my 1bar map and tune, even though that's how it was setup when this whole problem started.
But NOW, it doesn't sputter!!!!! I wish I could say "problem solved" and move on, but it's never that simple is it?

As stated above, there is the issue with the shifts, and the "won't-turn-off" problem. AND now the AFR is looking way to lean at WOT, which doesn't make sense, because it was dead on when I had this SAME tune in it a month ago! I don't even know how to tune that crazy 30 section stock VE table.

Here are things I tried to no avail:
-new plugs .028
-new plug wires
-swapped coils from bank 1 to bank 2 (to see if scan showed the problem moving to the other bank)
-swapped injectors from B1 to B2
-checked fuel pressure (cruising=63psi WOT=bout 57psi)
-messed with every parameter that I could possibly think of
-pulled out my hair


Here is the original 1bar tune (no sputter, but has the other problems) and my current 2bar tune(sputters).

Sputtering in boost scan: look near frame 7,700
More sputtering: look near frame 12,500

Thanks!!!

[BigDaddyCool]

Can I also point out the min/max O2 sensors set to 41mv looks odd to me...... because basically unless you hit the points it doesn't switch from what I know.... Perhaps they need to be set back to factory for the switching voltage there?

I'm refering to Engine > Fuel > Open & Closed Loop (the main area) for the Min Rich/Lean .... two entries there.

PS. Also why isn't LTFT running if it's enabled in your tune? .....

[DSteck]

Ok... My first response was a shoot from the hip reply based on skimming the post while reading it on my phone. Few things:

-Your MAF High table isn't populated.
-Your Bank 1 injector pulse gets drastically larger than Bank 2.
-You do definitely have a misfire on the driver side though.
-Apply the TCS patches.

Something tells me whoever originally tuned it mucked with some shit they shouldn't have using software other than HP Tuners. Get yourself a clean 2007 TBSS file and do a write entire into your ECM. Then, read it back out and apply the custom operating system.

Attached is a clean, working 2007 TBSS file. Obviously you'd need to edit it to suit your setup, and you'd have to license it. You can also have a dealer flash the truck to stock and start over.

[mecanicman]

There is just so much wrong with this tune..........Did anyone watch the logs all the way through? The ve is not close through most of it, seen as much as 20% afr error at wot if the wideband and afr error pid are right. In wot pull close to the end bank 1 injectors are driven 5ms more then bank 2 at the peak of the run.

Put your 2bar map in and TUNE it. Your sputtering is cause its to lean as far as I can see. Go back to the begginig and start over, check everything over for leaks.

Dsteck watched all the way through, missed his last post.

[MikeOD]

I hate to say it, but with what's in your original tune, and your 2-bar tune, nobody can wave a magic wand and just change a setting or flip a switch and correct it...it's really really bad.

With a turbo 408 are you running a return style fuel system with a 1:1 pressure regulator? If so your injector data is not correct either. How much pressure are you running with the key on and engine off? Your 2 bar tune has the rev limiter set 1200 RPM lower too (extreme cutoff and extreme resume). In the 1 bar tune, your PE table is a nightmare...the original tuner raped that instead of tuning the MAF and VE correctly.

Dave is right, you're better off to start over. Take the stock file he posted, set it up for your fuel injectors and fuel system (if you're running a return system at 58 PSI and a 1:1 regulator like I asked, then put the IFR value for 58 PSI in the entire table, and go to the injector offset vs pressure vs voltage table, and copy the 58 PSI column to the entire table too...use the 2-bar MAP, set sensor linear and offset correctly, set the PE table safe, if you use the 2-bar OS, set the boost enrichment safe too, then tune the MAF and VE...I'd bet your truck will run great. Once you've done that, bring the rev limiter back up to where you want it, and dial in the transmission.

[blkws6]

Hey guys, I appreciate all the input! Cash talks I guess! lol I combed through you guys suggestions and I'll try messing with it a little tonight. I'll probably post again tomorrow.

Here's some more info:
-Stock returnless fuel pump with B.A.P.
-It is currently CLSD tuned. It has MAF installed, but my tuner guy unplugged it because he was having problems tuning it.

DStech, you have got me thinking about that MAF sensor. I might try to hook it back up and dial it in and see what happens. I'll apply those TCS patches too.

[blkws6]

Well I hooked up the MAF and it started out great, but it had it's own set of problems. I got it dialed-in from the bottom end, up to heavy throttle. As I got up to heavy throttle, the fuel delivery would drastically rise and drop for no apparent reason. Oh and the TCC would not lock up with the MAF plugged in. (go figure)

So I guess tomorrow I'm going to be starting with that clean file Dave posted.

Do I have to get 4 more credits? 2 for the tune, and 2 for 2bar enhancement?

[MikeOD]

No, just use the compare file feature and then view comparison log, right click and copy over differences.

[blkws6]

Well I have spent most of weekend working on this thing. I bit the bullet and licensed that tune from DStech. I thought about copy and pasting, but I was kinda concerned that the tune might have some glitches in it's framework or something (IDK) since it looked like someone may have used the wrong software to tune it. I also upgraded to 2bar (again lol).

1st I tuned it SD, and it still did the same sputtering on bank 1. Then I hooked up the maf and tried to tune it. I got the trims looking ok, and once I got up to heavy/full throttle, the fuel delivery would rise or drop kinda drastically. It didn't do the sputtering on bank 1 though, so that's a plus. I finally noticed on the scan, that the cyl airmass is acting crazy, in sync with the fuel delivery.

I don't see any sensors being spastic, so what could cause the calculated cyl airmass get crazy?

I attached a scan and my new tune. You can see the problem at frame 1690 and 5448.

I'm still a beginner so I'm probably doing something wrong or missing something obvious.

[carlrx7]

VE and Maf are both enabled, tune one then the other.

[blkws6]

Thanks Carl, I just spent the evening tuning the MAF with MAP unplugged. It was not very cooperative. Very difficult to tune in boost, maybe it's my Delphi maf sensor. I got it as close as I could and then plugged the MAP back up, and it still did the surging with cyl/airmass jumping around.

When I was tuning MAF only, it did not do ANY of the crazy things that it has been doing. So I may just have to divorce that MAP sensor and marry the MAF, and see if I can get it tuned better, and maybe just run MAF only and no VE.
Is this even a viable option? Is it going to haunt me?

[DSteck]

Dude. You don't unplug the MAP sensor.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think you need to bring that truck to somebody well qualified to finish it.

[blkws6]

Dude. You don't unplug the MAP sensor.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think you need to bring that truck to somebody well qualified to finish it.

Lol, that's what I thought, until carlrx7 said "VE and Maf are both enabled, tune one then the other.", maybe I am interpreting his statement improperly though.

I guess if I knew I could take it to somebody and have it running right for a reular tuning fee, then I would probably do it. I'm just afraid It's gonna drag into another one of these deals where they spend a lot of time on it, and therefore want to be paid, and still can't figure out why this thing goes wonky.

Does anybody know who would be the best tuner in the ATL area?

[MikeOD]

To run MAF only to get the MAF sensor dialed in, just go to Engine - Airflow - Dynamic, then make the high RPM disable and enable numbers say 40 and 39 instead of 4000 and 3900.

Try that first, and set up a proper AFR error histogram against your MAF tables, make sure you put THE EXACT SAME NUMBER in the 5800 Hz value of both tables, and then see how the truck runs...leave it in MAF only and just try driving it...don't go bananas yet...don't make a ton of boost yet...I think your spark table will need some work for that first...but just try what I suggested.

[DSteck]

I guess if I knew I could take it to somebody and have it running right for a reular tuning fee, then I would probably do it. I'm just afraid It's gonna drag into another one of these deals where they spend a lot of time on it, and therefore want to be paid, and still can't figure out why this thing goes wonky.

Completely understandable. You may need to travel a little bit to have it done right.

[blkws6]

To run MAF only to get the MAF sensor dialed in, just go to Engine - Airflow - Dynamic, then make the high RPM disable and enable numbers say 40 and 39 instead of 4000 and 3900.

Try that first, and set up a proper AFR error histogram against your MAF tables, make sure you put THE EXACT SAME NUMBER in the 5800 Hz value of both tables, and then see how the truck runs...leave it in MAF only and just try driving it...don't go bananas yet...don't make a ton of boost yet...I think your spark table will need some work for that first...but just try what I suggested.

Thanks for the info Mike, I've been working on dialing in the MAF only, this week, and finally started to ease into boost today. Started rich of course and leaned out to where I wanted it.

But low and behold once I got into some decent boost, it still did the Bank 1 sputtering thing (particularly in 3rd). So I'm bald now, from pulling my hair out. lol
And as before, it runs fine in 1st and 2nd, so I was able finish tuning the MAF through the full range. After I finished it, I re-enabled the MAP sensor (VE already tuned), and the sputtering problem still persisted.


Any more suggestions/ideas? Anyone know of a GOOD tuner in GA?

[DSteck]

Pull your ABS fuse out for shits and grins.

[10_SS]

just looked at your scan quick... haven't read every word in this thread, but have you noticed the Injector pulswidths split right at frame 7701? They are dead even before this and up to 174kpa @ 17msec (frame 7701), then beyond this, they continue to drift apart.

By 187kpa, they are B1=23.6, B2=19.0msec. This is ~20% difference. From what I see all of my logs show these two values just about dead equal.

I would focus on why there is a split. I would think this difference would cause one bank to be either really rich... or one back to be lean, depending what side was tuned via wideband. If one bank is rich (B1), then it could be flooding out causing the sputtering.