Primary VE vs. RPM vs. MAP

[Monty]

Is there a way to make a Histogram using the Dynamic Cylinder Air as the General & Plot PID: and use the Primary VE vs. RPM vs. MAP for the Roll & Col Axis and end up with something that will measure the Primary VE in-order to see if the Main VE tables in the VCM Editor are correct... or am i going about this wrong ?

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

Not sure what you are really getting at, but if you want to check the VE tables plot AFR error in the VE histogram. Plotting logged values for airflow will show up "right" because that is what the computer is fueling by. You basically take it back a step, but not far enough to see if there are errors. Which is where AFR error comes in.

[Monty]

Not sure what you are really getting at, but if you want to check the VE tables plot AFR error in the VE histogram. Plotting logged values for airflow will show up "right" because that is what the computer is fueling by. You basically take it back a step, but not far enough to see if there are errors. Which is where AFR error comes in.

well the reason for this is, when i unhook the MAF the motor will hardly run, i haven't a dyno around my area for 100s of miles, so i wanted to try and use the histogram for current fueling with MAF to maybe set the correct values for the VE .. im guessing ill need to buy a wide band and upgrade hpt though i didnt want to have to do that

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

You don't need a dyno to tune it. A WB is the best way but you can still work on it with the trims.

Post your tune and log with MAF failed.

[Monty]

k here's it, though i 0 failed the maf in the one log, it still showed working on the gauges idk.. but the truck would hardly ran and had no power .. i throw in another log with maf none fail right after. wasnt sure if i should allow for the STFTs to work or not so i just let them... and i tried to log the AFR error but the pid wouldnt work .. it was the user defined pid, went in tried to config it but didnt have access to it.

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

File is tuner locked.

[Monty]

File is tuner locked.

ok should be unlocked now, sorry my HPT auto locks files i had unlocked it to send it then opened it to make sure and it auto locked it.. thought i uploaded the unlocked .. ha might not have this time either let me know ..

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

What are your mods? Put the stock table back in to start with, looks pig rich.

[Monty]

What are your mods? Put the stock table back in to start with, looks pig rich.

yep crazy rich ... huh

nope that is stock VE

here is stock file

oh and only mods are hotcam and springs, freshly rebuilt motor, no cats

oh and iv been trying this LTFT tuning on the VE from this website, have yet to test, bad weather out.. http://www.ls2.com/boggs/ls1edit/ls1...ing%20info.htm from what iv done on the Main VE from 1600rpm to 400rpm / 15 to 105kpa map is -10 though the histogram shows i should have done more, i think -10 is a good start, going to test this wednesday if its not raining .. if test turns out good, i am then going to do a good long log run -MAF and go from there..

why the stock Main VE would be so way off idk .. less the hotcam makes that much diff in cylinder filling at low rpm .. we will see....

[Monty]

Not sure what you are really getting at, but if you want to check the VE tables plot AFR error in the VE histogram. Plotting logged values for airflow will show up "right" because that is what the computer is fueling by. You basically take it back a step, but not far enough to see if there are errors. Which is where AFR error comes in.

Did i say i can't plot AFR error, for some reason when i load that user defined which btw came pre-programed on the VCM scanner, it wont work and says < unsupported parameter > and the pre loaded histogram will not work either with out the loging of AFR error, and there is no sensor or pid for it .. so maybe you need a wideband inorder for the AFR error to work ? even that ls2.com talks of this AFR error logging and histogram.. but does not say anything about a wideband, since the tuning is for with out using a wideband, for some reason im outta luck with using it, i must not be doing something right inorder for it to work, else there is a BUG in the VCM scanner.. perhaps i should report it ?

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

You can't plot AFR error without a WB or all the proper parameters logged.

OK, I didn't know if that was stock. Look like you need to disable and reset LTFTs, plot STFT error vs. VE and go tune. Lower your idle area by % you see it off by at idle, that should help get it running better. A cam tune normally has lower VE the higher your vacuum and lower your RPM.

[Monty]

You can't plot AFR error without a WB or all the proper parameters logged.

OK, I didn't know if that was stock. Look like you need to disable and reset LTFTs, plot STFT error vs. VE and go tune. Lower your idle area by % you see it off by at idle, that should help get it running better. A cam tune normally has lower VE the higher your vacuum and lower your RPM.

Sorry for asking, but to save time, from going to go search how to plot STFT error not sure i have that STFT error option, would that be what im ploting now, see link above ? does the pid say STFT "error" ? or would the VCM scanner default histogram "VE - Short Term Fuel Trims" be the STFT "error" your speaking of ? the plot sensor only says STFT no "error".

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

PID doesn't say error, yes you will need the VE - STFT table. The plot will be "STFT".

[Monty]

PID doesn't say error, yes you will need the VE - STFT table. The plot will be "STFT".

Thank you SO MUCH

[Monty]

OK did some tuning on it today and well, still rich, see tune Main VE Primary and log.

Now after i did the editing to the Main VE Primary, the LTFTs did go down on the - scale but still around - 10 to -12s but i stopped there, because once i would edit the VE some id go back and check with MAF non fail and well, with MAF non fail it shows that now its wanting to add fuel in the LTFTs, so idk perhaps my O2s are fouled are worn out or something, because i do get

[PCM] P0135 - HO2S Heater Performance Bank 1 Sensor 1 (Pending) (Old) (Current) (Immature)
[PCM] P0155 - HO2S Heater Performance Bank 2 Sensor 1 (Pending) (Old) (Current) (Immature)

but from the little bit i did do to the VE i was able to drive on VE only

i would think though that its worse when it comes to being like it should, one would think the LTFTs should be like at 0 or at lest in the - and not the + but it has moved now from the - to the +

here are the files and logs ..

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

Tune the VE and when you are done go back and tune the MAF. It is possible that when you go back to the MAF you could be lean.

[c.u]

Well look at as when you tune all you are doing is removing as much error as you can. Even if you tune the ve/maf to zero trims one day on the next day you may see + or - dew just from weather change.

[Monty]

Well look at as when you tune all you are doing is removing as much error as you can. Even if you tune the ve/maf to zero trims one day on the next day you may see + or - dew just from weather change.

Thanks so much for your guys help BIG TIME.... way man way

over the years iv learned how to tune using LTFTs and STFTs together and separately on stock O2s.. Not only that but i have learned how to tune idle, WOT and MAF and more..

But now im to the point where its time to install a turbo.. as i have my 6.0 out for mods do to lifter failure and have put in a 5.3 in-which i plan on using it to learn how to tune turbo btw i have video of it all

Ok but my problem is, my OS only goes to 2 bar enhancements and thats ok for now, but im sure im going to go over 2 bar in no time, now iv seen people talking about it on here, but cant seem to figure it out, on how to change my OS.. like as if i found a 2004 file that had 3 bar enhancements available, couldnt i just install it to my ECM, does the compatible file need to have the same SEED and CONTROLLER or just one or the other ?

thanks and peace