is knock retard ok?...

[midnightmagnum]

Hi i have an ls3, stroked to 418, with a d1sc procharger and blower cam. The engine is also completely forged with lower piston rings and with more piston ring gap along with about stock ls3 compression. It seems I get knock retard at higher rpms in the first tuners tune but yet i am getting about 11.0-10.9 wb a/f (seemingly rich), I then had the car tuned by another tuner and I seem to get less kr and I am getting about 12.0-11.7 wb a/f (seemingly leaner)...

Does anyone see anything wrong with these logs I did of each tune? I dont want to risk blowing a motor again!

Thanks for all the support!

[Higgs Boson]

no you do not want KNOCK retard. make sure it isn't torque management pulling timing or burst (predictive) knock though.

i don't think i would worry about the af as much right now, it's in the 11's. there are timing tables to adjust, it isn't necessarily related to your AFR...

[midnightmagnum]

from the files I sent, does the "breathless" file look like too much knock retard? or does this look ok?

If this is not ok, do you have any good suggestions of what I should modify and by how much? I am very new at this..

[midnightmagnum]

how do you tell if its torque managment pulling timing?

[IDRIVEAG8GT]

how do you tell if its torque managment pulling timing?

Disable BKR, and on the dyno take T/C off. Knock=bad period.

[midnightmagnum]

How do I disable Burst knock Retard? if this is disabled, what kind of knock retard will be still enabled?

sorry for the uneducated questions, Im a quick learner though..

Thanks a bunch for this help as well..

[Higgs Boson]

zero the burst knock tables

torque management and real knock.

i also disable torque management completely, and as mentioned turn off traction control. those things also pull timing to do their job and make it so you can't see real knock retard. they all show up the same in the histogram.

[midnightmagnum]

ok great.

what exactly does torque management do?

[IDRIVEAG8GT]

ok great.

what exactly does torque management do?

Tq Mangement pulls timing for a certain period of time to eliminate wheel spin (T/C on), and is used in the transmission to eliminate abuse, (hard shifts) It Can also be used in a factor of COT, whenever your Cats get too hot they'll request the ECM fatten up the AFR so they don't melt, and in some severe cases will pull between two and five degrees of timing and will definitely show up as knock. You might want to lower the knock sensor sensitivity a little bit too, since from the factory they're so sensitive bumps going down the road will trip them. Also to better see when the ECM sees knock, set Knock Recovery Fast Attack Rate to the number 5.

[midnightmagnum]

so i assume, it is good to disable torque management on a car with a worked motor?

If so, Any suggestions on how to disable it.

Again, thanks for the serious help on this! I had no one to turn to for info this deep...

[IDRIVEAG8GT]

so i assume, it is good to disable torque management on a car with a worked motor?

If so, Any suggestions on how to disable it.

Again, thanks for the serious help on this! I had no one to turn to for info this deep...

Uh..... High horsepower motors with no TM is not a great idea unless you are really wanting to break parts. Reducing TM small amounts is pretty much fine though. Disable BKR, up the max trans torque limit to 6042 Lb. Ft and, then it's pretty much up to your car. You have to be more specific in what you want the car to do/feel like.

[midnightmagnum]

Ok, now I zeroed out the bkr table in both of these tunes (hope i did it correct), and they seem to not have changed on the pulls I did tonight. Are there any other settings in these tunes that can be causing this kr?

If you look at the attached files, it shows the tune and the log of the tune. I have spent so much money and time on this, it really frustrates me. I payed over $1350.00 in 2 tunes so far, I payed over $700.00 for this software to see if the tunes were right, I payed over $8000.00 for a new engine after the first one blew up. I dont want to risk this new engine. I wish i knew more about tuning, but unfortunately I dont. Any help would be greatly apreciated. Thanks all...

[Super73]

Do you have any rattles that could be causing false knock? (Sensors are some times overly sensitive)

Try putting 5 gallons of race gas in it an see if the KR goes away, that sometimes helps to tell you if it is false KR or real KR. If it still has KR after the 5 gallons of race gas, it most likely is false KR.

IF KR goes away with the race gas then you need to adjust your timing tale. On your timing table, the area that you are seeing KR, remove 5 degrees of timing in the cell before, during and after the KR. If KR goes away, you may have too much timing in that area.

[midnightmagnum]

sweet will do, thanks for the great reply!!!

[midnightmagnum]

oh and quick question, where do i remove the timing from? do i remove it just from the high octane table? or from the high and low octane tables? Sorry if i sound stupid, because i am with this lol

[Higgs Boson]

make your high and low tables the same while tuning and add/remove from both.

[edcmat-l1]

What kind of dyno are you working on? Can you post a graph? Have you tried reading your plugs? Do you know what you're looking for?

[madvette08]

How much boost are you running? 25 to 23 degrees is a lot of timing for a FI car at WOT. I would pull 5 degrees of timing from above 0.88 cyl/airmass.

[obzidian]

I agree, seems like there might be a more timing than what she wants. I would also back here down some and retest.

[04colyZQ8]

I have a manual trans do I still need to zero out torque management? Also if I disable BKR is it safe to drive that way, and will knock still show up in my main spark histogram?