VE tuning fails

[TGP-37]

This was Schmieder's post but if you are him I will start with you should not gasket match the intake runners it should be ~0.1 smaller or matched to the heads otherwise it hits that smaller lip and adds turbulence, the solution to that is to not match the heads to the gasket and blend it.

For the issue of accessing the other tables not currently available you should search for the program "Tiny Tuner" the down side to that is you will need to find a .bin version of your OSID. Other wise find an os for a compatible supercharges VCM and use that to run the 2bar MAP.

The downwind side of any matching is slightly smaller for the very reason you pointed out.

There is absolutely NO pertruding ledges for the airflow to hit. There is about a 0.5mm increase in down-wind diameters. I used clay with old gasket pieces to keep proper depth to analyze how the pieces lined up when bolted down. A piano wire bent at one end also helps to 'feel' the merging. If there is a pertruding edge the wire will hit it and you can feel it.

I did some tricky DIY stuff. It was a job that took a long time to complete.

I have a .bin file for a 97 Malibu 3100 L82. Should be a direct match. Now how do I do this?

I open the bin with Tiny Tuners and......adjust the MAP values?

What about checksums, ect issues?

And when the file is saved as the .bin how do I get it flashed to the PCM?

I know it is a lot of questions...sorry.


UPDATE: I am in the bin file. I see MAP values of....

Default MAP Scalar: 0.1799316
Default MAP Sensor Offset: 10
Default Max MAP: 98.00781
MAP Scaling Factor: 0
MAP Sensing Offset: 10.332
P0121 Error Max MAP: 70
P0121 Error Min MAP: 50

What variable must be changed to allow for a 2-bar map?

[Phantom]

I just looked up a 2001 Bonneville ssei and the values are

Default MAP Scaling factor: 200
Default MAP Sensor Offset: 7.988281
Default Max MAP: 160

I attached a .txt file with the printout of all the settings for the bonneville, I was going to do the same for the NA bonneville but that OSID is not supported or atleast the one I have so it makes it harder to compare.

[TGP-37]

I just looked up a 2001 Bonneville ssei and the values are

Default MAP Scaling factor: 200
Default MAP Sensor Offset: 7.988281
Default Max MAP: 160

I attached a .txt file with the printout of all the settings for the bonneville, I was going to do the same for the NA bonneville but that OSID is not supported or atleast the one I have so it makes it harder to compare.

Thats it, thanks. I figured out the Map Scaling Factor but the Sensor Offset still eluded me until now.

Now I have to figure out how to get HPT to open the bin with a vin#. Unfortunately, I have a 97 controller and the bin files do not contain the vin#. So I can use TinyTuners to edit the bin file but the problem is HPT opening the file w/ no vin#. It won't flash the pcm w/o a vin. And I can't change the vin w/o a valid vin already in the file. It truley is a catch 22 spiral.

The only option I have is.....some how flashing the bin file to my PCM w/o HPTuners. Once it is flashed the bin will be in the PCM with the vin#. So I can use hpt for their tables, very convenient. But the vin# issue is harsh.

[Phantom]

Cant you add the correct VIN in Tinytuner?

[oakleafresin]

Send me the file and the vin and I'll add it to the file for you.

[TGP-37]

Cant you add the correct VIN in Tinytuner?

Doesn't work for my file(s)

But the problem is solved. I figured out where the Hex Addresses were and manually inserted the VIN. HPT then opened the file just fine.

Ends up Windows has a nice utility in the RUN (MSDOS like) command. I found a 99 bin with a good VIN, saved a copy as A.bin, changed the VIN and saved a copy called B.bin.

Go to RUN, CD C:\..... to the folder where the compare files are and type, FS A.BIN B.BIN

It listed the differences between the two files and gave me the Hex Addresses for such changes.

After that it was a simple Hex Edit and it worked. Re-opened in TT's to recalc the Checksum and that's it.

Here is a great example of never giving up. I refused defeat and pushed onward, even when others said it was impossible to put a VIN in a 97-98 bin file.

[TGP-37]

Send me the file and the vin and I'll add it to the file for you.

Yeah, I solved it. But thanks anyways. Had I not fixed it you would be a blessing right now, lol.

Ahhh, now I have access to A LOT more tables. Only thing is now I have to transfer all the edited data from my current HPT file to the bin file. So I can edit setting in the BIN and not have to worry about re-edit in HPT. Like spark tables.

Now, I'm really excited. I can use my 2-Bar MAP, alter launch spark tables and even investigate the use of Supercharger routines in the PCM. If I can get a hold of a boost controller for a 3800 I probably can wire it into the PCM and use tables to control boost.

[bilemke]

Doesn't work for my file(s)

But the problem is solved. I figured out where the Hex Addresses were and manually inserted the VIN. HPT then opened the file just fine.

Ends up Windows has a nice utility in the RUN (MSDOS like) command. I found a 99 bin with a good VIN, saved a copy as A.bin, changed the VIN and saved a copy called B.bin.

Go to RUN, CD C:\..... to the folder where the compare files are and type, FS A.BIN B.BIN

It listed the differences between the two files and gave me the Hex Addresses for such changes.

After that it was a simple Hex Edit and it worked. Re-opened in TT's to recalc the Checksum and that's it.

Here is a great example of never giving up. I refused defeat and pushed onward, even when others said it was impossible to put a VIN in a 97-98 bin file.

Danger, Will Robinson!

Hm. Assuming you put this at a hex address before 8000.... Hope you realize/know what you just overwrote with vin data that wasnt vin data to begin with.

[oakleafresin]

Mike how could that be true? When I change the value for the vin or even the serial number in the hex, HPT shows the changes I made as being correct. I've tried it in my 98 and 02 and another 98 bin. I convert the VIN to hex and throw it in...

[bilemke]

98+ is fine. Would be very careful about trying to flash a 97 bin with a vin manually put in that way.

[oakleafresin]

Ahh lol, was starting to second guess myself

[TGP-37]

Danger, Will Robinson!

Hm. Assuming you put this at a hex address before 8000.... Hope you realize/know what you just overwrote with vin data that wasnt vin data to begin with.

Yeah, I checked the differences in TT between the altered and un altered file. All data is the same.

The addresses in which the VIN was injected translated into the same garbage text HPT was showing in the VIN box in Edit > Calibration Details. So HPT was programmed to read this area for a VIN as well. I am assuming each file opened has its own year/OS ID calibration, yes? Why would HPT target a HEX address for a VIN number if it wasn't for a VIN#?

To confirm even further I had found a 98bin with a vin present. It too was in the same area.

I haven't taken the car for a spin yet but it idles fine with that file flashed.

I am not convinced yet, because of reasons you stated above. But the progress looks promising.

It's a better option then figuring out how to sniff traffic while HPT is pulling data from the PCM, then injecting MY *.bin file during a write. It would be impossible unless the data wire from OBD2 harness to PCM is tapped and sniffed. I'd rather buy Megasquirt before I go that far.

[TGP-37]

Mike how could that be true? When I change the value for the vin or even the serial number in the hex, HPT shows the changes I made as being correct. I've tried it in my 98 and 02 and another 98 bin. I convert the VIN to hex and throw it in...

I thought the same myself.

Suppose HPT does a FULL READ of the PCM. It HAS to pull the VIN# and store it in the *.hpt file.

Either way, a bin from the PCM or my Hard Drive HPT will look for a VIN# to encrypt with the data from the bin.

Does HPT look in a different HEX location if the bin is opened somewhere other then a PCM? I'm assuming no.

If HPT recognizes the VIN# I feel confident it will work just fine. But just in case, .....anyone have a 97 lumina pcm for sale? lol, j/k



Off Topic but...Check out this VE formula I put together for the scanner.

VE = (((([PID.16]/((491.67/(459.67+[PID.15]))*0.0808))/((191.732*[PID.12])/3456)))*100)
VE = (((([MAF lb/min]/((491.67/(459.67+[IAT]))*0.0808))/(({Displacement cu3}*[RPM])/3456)))*100)

It calculates air density referrencing 32f at 0.0808 lb/ft3 as a standard and adjust per IAT. So far it works for me but yet have to test it through a WOT scan.

This one uses the Injector Pulsewidth as the main basis for Airmass to calculate VE
VE = (((([SENS.121]*(((([SENS.112]*[SENS.70])/1200)*0.01)*34.4))/60)/((491.67/(459.67+[SENS.11]))*0.0808))/((191.732*[SENS.70)/3456))*100

(((( AFR Commanded *(((( INJ PW * RPM )/1200)*0.01)* INJ lb/hr ))/60)/((491.67/(459.67+ IAT ))*0.0808))/(( Cubic Inch Displacement * RPM )/3456))*100

[bilemke]

Yeah, I checked the differences in TT between the altered and un altered file. All data is the same.

The addresses in which the VIN was injected translated into the same garbage text HPT was showing in the VIN box in Edit > Calibration Details. So HPT was programmed to read this area for a VIN as well. I am assuming each file opened has its own year/OS ID calibration, yes? Why would HPT target a HEX address for a VIN number if it wasn't for a VIN#?

To confirm even further I had found a 98bin with a vin present. It too was in the same area.

I haven't taken the car for a spin yet but it idles fine with that file flashed.

I am not convinced yet, because of reasons you stated above. But the progress looks promising.

It's a better option then figuring out how to sniff traffic while HPT is pulling data from the PCM, then injecting MY *.bin file during a write. It would be impossible unless the data wire from OBD2 harness to PCM is tapped and sniffed. I'd rather buy Megasquirt before I go that far.

Big question, did you do a full or partial write?

I know quite well that TT shows garbage for the vin # in 97s. Believe me, I was on one of the first to be using TT with a 97 bin.

If you take a 97 HPT file with vin, flash it. Then read it with another tuner, the vin is still not in the location you are describing. For that matter, I have not seen a tuner that saves in bin format actually save a 97 file (of any v6 car) save a file with a vin in any location in the bin.

If you did a partial write, it makes perfect sense that your car is running fine. If you did a full write, I would be very interested if you run in to any issues.

[TGP-37]

Big question, did you do a full or partial write?

I know quite well that TT shows garbage for the vin # in 97s. Believe me, I was on one of the first to be using TT with a 97 bin.

If you take a 97 HPT file with vin, flash it. Then read it with another tuner, the vin is still not in the location you are describing. For that matter, I have not seen a tuner that saves in bin format actually save a 97 file (of any v6 car) save a file with a vin in any location in the bin.

If you did a partial write, it makes perfect sense that your car is running fine. If you did a full write, I would be very interested if you run in to any issues.

Hmmmm, does HPT pull VIN data from a different HEX location if the BIN was in the PCM versus a bin stored on a Hard Drive?

Full write. So what your saying is I sort of tricked HPT into accepting the file for what it is?

HPT loads the BIN with the VIN I injected. So what happens when the file is saved in HPT as a *.hpt file? Because I can re-open in HPT and the vin remains.

Does HPT save the file with the VIN properly in a *.hpt file? Or is it a matter of HPT saving an encrypted version of the BIN so the VIN is still stored in the injected addresses?

In your past experience have you encounter such a situation as mine, specifically vin injection into a 97 bin then flashed with HPT? I would be interested in the outcome.

This would be so much easier if I could just have the tables I needed altered available or adjusted via HPT Tech. Though I was told it could not be done w/o the vin.

With all of this VIN frustration, I AM ON THE EDGE OF PURCHASING MEGASQUIRT...LOL

[TGP-37]

I just completed several tests and did a few WOT pulls with the vin hacked bin.

2 Bar MAP is accurate
AFR remain spot

the MAP reached it's expected point at 135-138 kPa at 5psi.

Spark commanded w/o error.

No unusual errors reported.

Fans work, all sensors good, starts up nice, idles smooth with +/- 20 rpm.


So far the VIN hack bin is working good.

[bilemke]

I just completed several tests and did a few WOT pulls with the vin hacked bin.

2 Bar MAP is accurate
AFR remain spot

the MAP reached it's expected point at 135-138 kPa at 5psi.

Spark commanded w/o error.

No unusual errors reported.

Fans work, all sensors good, starts up nice, idles smooth with +/- 20 rpm.


So far the VIN hack bin is working good.

We'll see. All I know, I have several 97 PCMs. Stock or otherwise, all have vins in them. None have every had a vin read out correctly in to a bin file.

[TGP-37]

Update: I determined the VIN injection HAS corrupted either these tables or the code to process these tables....

Boost Control - Timer Max
Boost Delay - Boost Timer Base
Traction Mode - Boost Control Enabled

It just so happens these tables aren't used unless the PCM is set for a supercharger being present. I figured this by testing two files which are identical in every way except for vin injected versus not touched at all.

The file with out vin injection opened these tables fine in TT. After vin injection these tables, when selected, will crash TT.

The GREAT news is I gambled and won. It just so happens these tables are useless to me and aren't causing any problems so far.

I have since had the car under many different operating conditions with no indication the vin injection is causing any alteration to PCM performance/operation stability.

Sooo, I can say this will work for a 97PCM for a 97 Lumina. But I can't say for other 97PCMs. I could be wrong about the tables effected, ect. But I do know the vehicle runs just fine. Been scanning it nearly every drive. I will admit, I was a little nervous at first.

[LETZRIDE]

Alright this is wayyy over my head...can you explain this dummed down a lot? Currently I am running a VE based tune, but I have had to trick the computer to get the AFR values I desire (basically ask it to command 9afr in order to obtain 12.xx at WOT)

I am an N/A car, so I dont need 2 bar map, the stock is fine...but I DO want these extra map tables...are you able to change any of the defaults?? you mentioned the default map scaler is 200? My ve table maxes at 200% which is not enough ...can I change that with these tables so that I can properly scale my ve tables?