100mm Maf kickin my Butt!!!

carlrx7 · 10-27-2009, 08:44 PM

hey guys,

i thought i understood what i was getting myself into, but im at a loss of words of whats happening.

i replaced my 06 ls2 MAF meter with a 4" tube and ls7 sensor.

my problem is the car will not idle, ive gone as far as raising the idle to 1400 rpms just so it wont die,

idle surges from 400 - 2000 rpms. afr goes from 10.3 to 18.1. freakin insane and quite scary, the misfires are threw the roof.

ive tried doubling/tripling the maf table, tried using the powermaf, and tried scaling the stock ls7 table by % to my current ifr numbers around .86.

my tune is a basically a stock 06 tune scaled to 50%. but i kept the idle airflow numbers to stock. using the 60's with all the correct data. gregs dvd doesn't cover scaling. i just got in his new book. at a quick glance i didn't see any topic about scaling, but am gonna finish reading it tonight.

i think tommorow im gonna try a tune thats not 'scaled' , its late and the neighbors are pissed.

-carl

Mez · 10-27-2009, 11:22 PM

Post the tune and scan.

RWTD · 10-28-2009, 12:35 AM

Make sure you have the sensor pointing in the correct direction.

Blades · 10-28-2009, 05:07 AM

Its probably too much turbulence causing erratic readings from the sensor.. So its not so much the new sensor, but rather the addition of the 4 inch pipe. Especially if the pipe ramps up to 4 inches too 'quickly' before the sensor.

carlrx7 · 10-28-2009, 05:23 AM

i actually just have the 4"x6"pipe installed with couplers on both ends to the TB. maybe it needs a longer path to smooth the air out. id have to cut the intercooler charge pipe for it to fit, so im waiting till i know i can at least tune it before i do anything perminate.

ill try to post my tune, but hptforums doesn't like my laptop.

-carl

p.s. nope it wont uploadl. anything over 100kb wont upload

RWTD · 10-28-2009, 10:37 AM

It's the version HPT is on. They need to upgrade to the latest version of vBulletin to get around the issue. It's a known issue.

swebld · 10-28-2009, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blades

Its probably too much turbulence causing erratic readings from the sensor.. So its not so much the new sensor, but rather the addition of the 4 inch pipe. Especially if the pipe ramps up to 4 inches too 'quickly' before the sensor.

Hi !

I have NOT seen THIS(wait) before in any thread. I have a "Z06"(?) alu housing MAF close to 100mm mounted close to my Tony ported LS2 throttle body/FAST intake. LS2 block based engine. AFR 59cc/G5X1 etc.. Car is C5-2000MN6. My problem was a HORRIBLE MAF output and some serious bucking in some low speed cruising.
In idle, it always jumped between 4 cells(MAF Hz). At full throttle, Input from the MAF looked like the Alps, jumping up/down 15-20%. Wow ! Needed a solution. Found this honeycomb
http://www.saxonpc.com/7-inch-black-cell-honeycom7.html

Ordered a couple of the "3/4" Thick 3/16" Cell Aluminum" ones.
...waited a week or two....

Cut out a circular piece of the VERY thin high quality honeycomb and pressed in carefully into the MAF housing. Honeycomb ended up around 1/2 inch from the MAF measuring device. Didn´t really secure the honeycomb any more at this stage. Have some ideas how to do it.

Tested my solution and BOY did it work well

MAF is moving like 1,5 cell in the scanner at idle(cammed car) and even more stable when revving. Have problems now to test full throttle in the street due to rain and 5 deg Celcius. (Sweden)

This honeycomb may well NOT be the perfect sized one. Cells could be i bit smaller. But it shure seems to work and you guys are free to try to find a better one

I´d like to se someone else test this solution. Maybee one of the guru guys ? I will work some more on this and probably make my own proper airflow total filter+airflow solution(my friend is an aerospace engineer) this winter. (Example : The connection to the air filter housing should be BIGGER that the MAF housing - don´t want the air pressure dropping from filter to MAF)

Will try to get a picture of the MAF asap.

Pulse_GTO · 10-28-2009, 04:31 PM

I had issues with a 100 mm MAF as well until I Moved the sensor away from a bend and now it works perfectly.

ZZMike · 10-28-2009, 04:45 PM

I also used the 3/4" honeycomb from Saxon PC, and then a fine aluminum screen, much like household window screen. MAF output is steady as a rock. Before, the car wouldn't idle, and even under hard acceleration the MAF signal looked like a rusty sawblade. Now it is straight and solid.

Cheers,

Mike

swebld · 10-28-2009, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZZMike

I also used the 3/4" honeycomb from Saxon PC, and then a fine aluminum screen, much like household window screen. MAF output is steady as a rock. Before, the car wouldn't idle, and even under hard acceleration the MAF signal looked like a rusty sawblade. Now it is straight and solid.

Cheers,

Mike

NICE Mike !
Now i can go back to sleep, knowning that MY rusty sawblade hopefully is history

Though i´m not shure where to put the "fine aluminum screen" to get the best result, did you ever test without it ?

carlrx7 · 10-28-2009, 06:29 PM

ok , i fixed it,, idles like a kitten ,,

it was the temp install that was causing probs.

before = wrong and will run like shyt!!!!

p.s. yes the sensor was in and pluged in and installed facing the right way.
-----

correct temp install,, idles sweet!!

----

final install complete,,

p.s. total cost about 140 bucks TOTAL!!! i love custom!
now off to some tuning!!! woohooo,, no more maxxed maf and 50% scalling - 1024g's!!!

thanks yall

-carl

ZZMike · 10-29-2009, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swebld

NICE Mike !
Now i can go back to sleep, knowning that MY rusty sawblade hopefully is history

Though i´m not shure where to put the "fine aluminum screen" to get the best result, did you ever test without it ?

I did test without it, but not on the car. I used a flow bench and smoke wand to work on getting the straightest possible flow across the MAF. It was much straighter with the screen, so that is what I used.

I have to take some pics for some board members that have been PM'ing me. I will post them here when I am finally able.

Mike

RWTD · 10-29-2009, 11:51 AM

Carl, if I would have known that's how it was "temp" setup, I would have immediately told you to put a temp filter on the end of it (or do what you did). Nice job!

5_Liter_Eater · 10-29-2009, 04:29 PM

Glad you got it resolved. I've tried this several times and it fights me like s son'beatch every time even with the complete piping installed. I'm fairly happy running 2 bar SD but whenever I feel like aggrivating myself I try it again. I've thought that the MAF is experiencing some turbulance too as I'm using an ECS LS3 IC - TB pipe and the MAF sensor is further upstream towards the IC than yours.

carlrx7 · 10-29-2009, 04:38 PM

the only tuning i did going from stock maf to 100mm was i took both lo and hi maf tables and multiplied by 2. got it pretty damn close +/- 10 ltft's , now its time for some OL maf WOT 3rd gear pulls to get it all dialed in.

i do feel like there is some turbulence, as i did one 3rd gear part mini pull and saw the maf freqency go back and forth between cells. doesn't seem right. shouldn't it go, up, up, and up!

-carl

carlrx7 · 10-31-2009, 11:58 PM

going to try and putting the 3/16 honeycomb in. i can feel slight bucking at low airflow

carlrx7 · 11-05-2009, 08:25 PM

UPDATE: posted this on the CF

today i got my MAF screen in its 3/4" thick, 3/16" holes x 4" circle. i poped the hood of the vette and found this!!

WTF!

i have no idea how this happend!! i would never EVER leave my car in this condition. at first i thought maybe it popped off during a blast down my back road. for ****s and giggles i tried to start it,, wouldn't even run. SO i ask WTF! i haven't driven the car since Sunday.

anyways,

here is some pics of the screen i installed.

sorry about the messy workbench.

i put a little JB weld on the inside of the tube and fins and just pushed it right in, nice and flat

p.s. notice the sweet RX7 threw the MAF!

all done..

after the jbweld sets, i will do some scans and see how much the Freq Hz straighten out compared to no screen.

-Carl

69lt1bird · 11-05-2009, 08:57 PM

Silcone hoses need some serious clamp force to hold. Either tighten the worm gear clamps better or look for a better style clamp.

carlrx7 · 11-06-2009, 01:41 AM

the thing is that i dont think it Blew off? because the car wouldn't even start, as expected.

im gonna try some hair spray.

07MontRedcp · 11-06-2009, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carlrx7

the thing is that i dont think it Blew off? because the car wouldn't even start, as expected.

i'm gonna try some hair spray.

Good idea, one should always look their best when working on their car.

BJK

10-27-2009, 08:44 PM	#1
carlrx7 Senior Tuner Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 208	100mm Maf kickin my Butt!!! hey guys, i thought i understood what i was getting myself into, but im at a loss of words of whats happening. i replaced my 06 ls2 MAF meter with a 4" tube and ls7 sensor. my problem is the car will not idle, ive gone as far as raising the idle to 1400 rpms just so it wont die, idle surges from 400 - 2000 rpms. afr goes from 10.3 to 18.1. freakin insane and quite scary, the misfires are threw the roof. ive tried doubling/tripling the maf table, tried using the powermaf, and tried scaling the stock ls7 table by % to my current ifr numbers around .86. my tune is a basically a stock 06 tune scaled to 50%. but i kept the idle airflow numbers to stock. using the 60's with all the correct data. gregs dvd doesn't cover scaling. i just got in his new book. at a quick glance i didn't see any topic about scaling, but am gonna finish reading it tonight. i think tommorow im gonna try a tune thats not 'scaled' , its late and the neighbors are pissed. -carl Last edited by carlrx7 : 10-27-2009 at 08:49 PM.
	Location: Charleston, SC

10-27-2009, 11:22 PM	#2
Mez Tuner Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 48	Post the tune and scan. __________________ 2005 Corvette Coupe. Mods include: Lingenfelter ported 243 heads, GT-11 Cam, FAST 92 Ported intake, ported throttle body, Dynatech Headers, Corsa Sports cat back, 6-speed, B&M Shifter, K&N CAI, 160 'stat, HRE Wheels, Firestone Wide Ovals, & HP Tuners
	Location: Austin, Texas

10-28-2009, 12:35 AM	#3
RWTD Senior Tuner Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,911	Make sure you have the sensor pointing in the correct direction. __________________ JUST SAY NO TO PE TABLE RAPING! RWTD *True Custom Tuning & Performance Parts Specialists!* Site: www.RWTD.com Custom Tuning: www.FordCustomTuning.com Toys: '08 Z06 / '03 SVT Cobra / '08 Harley Davidson Nightrod Special / '08 Seadoo RXP-X
	Location: Mobile, AL & Colorado Springs, CO

10-28-2009, 05:07 AM	#4
Blades Senior Tuner Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 388	Its probably too much turbulence causing erratic readings from the sensor.. So its not so much the new sensor, but rather the addition of the 4 inch pipe. Especially if the pipe ramps up to 4 inches too 'quickly' before the sensor. __________________ 2006 Trailblazer SS - Stalled, Cammed, Tuned, Turbo'd, Built, and Stroked. Runs on cash, blood, sweat, and tears...... and 93 octane. 2007 Cadillac STS-V - Stock.

10-28-2009, 05:23 AM	#5
carlrx7 Senior Tuner Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 208	i actually just have the 4"x6"pipe installed with couplers on both ends to the TB. maybe it needs a longer path to smooth the air out. id have to cut the intercooler charge pipe for it to fit, so im waiting till i know i can at least tune it before i do anything perminate. ill try to post my tune, but hptforums doesn't like my laptop. -carl p.s. nope it wont uploadl. anything over 100kb wont upload Last edited by carlrx7 : 10-28-2009 at 05:29 AM.
	Location: Charleston, SC

10-28-2009, 10:37 AM	#6
RWTD Senior Tuner Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,911	It's the version HPT is on. They need to upgrade to the latest version of vBulletin to get around the issue. It's a known issue. __________________ JUST SAY NO TO PE TABLE RAPING! RWTD *True Custom Tuning & Performance Parts Specialists!* Site: www.RWTD.com Custom Tuning: www.FordCustomTuning.com Toys: '08 Z06 / '03 SVT Cobra / '08 Harley Davidson Nightrod Special / '08 Seadoo RXP-X
	Location: Mobile, AL & Colorado Springs, CO

10-28-2009, 04:31 PM	#8
Pulse_GTO Senior Tuner Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 123	I had issues with a 100 mm MAF as well until I Moved the sensor away from a bend and now it works perfectly.

10-28-2009, 04:45 PM	#9
ZZMike Junior Tuner Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 28	I also used the 3/4" honeycomb from Saxon PC, and then a fine aluminum screen, much like household window screen. MAF output is steady as a rock. Before, the car wouldn't idle, and even under hard acceleration the MAF signal looked like a rusty sawblade. Now it is straight and solid. Cheers, Mike
	Location: North Phoenix, AZ

10-28-2009, 06:29 PM	#11
carlrx7 Senior Tuner Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 208	ok , i fixed it,, idles like a kitten ,, it was the temp install that was causing probs. before = wrong and will run like shyt!!!! p.s. yes the sensor was in and pluged in and installed facing the right way. ----- correct temp install,, idles sweet!! ---- final install complete,, p.s. total cost about 140 bucks TOTAL!!! i love custom! now off to some tuning!!! woohooo,, no more maxxed maf and 50% scalling - 1024g's!!! thanks yall -carl
	Location: Charleston, SC

10-29-2009, 11:51 AM	#13
RWTD Senior Tuner Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,911	Carl, if I would have known that's how it was "temp" setup, I would have immediately told you to put a temp filter on the end of it (or do what you did). Nice job! __________________ JUST SAY NO TO PE TABLE RAPING! RWTD *True Custom Tuning & Performance Parts Specialists!* Site: www.RWTD.com Custom Tuning: www.FordCustomTuning.com Toys: '08 Z06 / '03 SVT Cobra / '08 Harley Davidson Nightrod Special / '08 Seadoo RXP-X
	Location: Mobile, AL & Colorado Springs, CO

10-29-2009, 04:29 PM	#14
5_Liter_Eater Senior Tuner Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 2,511	Glad you got it resolved. I've tried this several times and it fights me like s son'beatch every time even with the complete piping installed. I'm fairly happy running 2 bar SD but whenever I feel like aggrivating myself I try it again. I've thought that the MAF is experiencing some turbulance too as I'm using an ECS LS3 IC - TB pipe and the MAF sensor is further upstream towards the IC than yours. __________________ Bill Winters '05 Black on black M6 Z51 - 617 RWHP / 567 RWTQ - ECS Paxton 1500 kit and blower cam, 1 3/4" long tube headers, high flow cats, Corsa Sport exhaust, stock injectors enlarged to 60#/hr by FIC; 2 bar speed density tune by me using HP Tuners and AEM UEGO "When life hands you lemons you upgrade to a C6." - Me
	Location: Houston, TX

10-29-2009, 04:38 PM	#15
carlrx7 Senior Tuner Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 208	the only tuning i did going from stock maf to 100mm was i took both lo and hi maf tables and multiplied by 2. got it pretty damn close +/- 10 ltft's , now its time for some OL maf WOT 3rd gear pulls to get it all dialed in. i do feel like there is some turbulence, as i did one 3rd gear part mini pull and saw the maf freqency go back and forth between cells. doesn't seem right. shouldn't it go, up, up, and up! -carl
	Location: Charleston, SC

10-31-2009, 11:58 PM	#16
carlrx7 Senior Tuner Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 208	going to try and putting the 3/16 honeycomb in. i can feel slight bucking at low airflow
	Location: Charleston, SC

11-05-2009, 08:25 PM	#17
carlrx7 Senior Tuner Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 208	UPDATE: posted this on the CF today i got my MAF screen in its 3/4" thick, 3/16" holes x 4" circle. i poped the hood of the vette and found this!! WTF! i have no idea how this happend!! i would never EVER leave my car in this condition. at first i thought maybe it popped off during a blast down my back road. for ****s and giggles i tried to start it,, wouldn't even run. SO i ask WTF! i haven't driven the car since Sunday. anyways, here is some pics of the screen i installed. sorry about the messy workbench. i put a little JB weld on the inside of the tube and fins and just pushed it right in, nice and flat p.s. notice the sweet RX7 threw the MAF! all done.. after the jbweld sets, i will do some scans and see how much the Freq Hz straighten out compared to no screen. -Carl
	Location: Charleston, SC

11-05-2009, 08:57 PM	#18
69lt1bird Senior Tuner Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 522	Silcone hoses need some serious clamp force to hold. Either tighten the worm gear clamps better or look for a better style clamp. __________________ Visit my web site: Information about Snowmobiling in Michigan Michigan Snowmobiler 1969 Firebird: Old cam times 11.67@114 7.55@97.93 1/8 1.70 60 ft. New EPS cam 234/246 .602.606 114+3, 6.0 LQ4, L92 heads milled 10.8:1, L76 intake, 90mm Holley TB, 85mm MAF, FIC Custom injectors, old cam (222/238 duration, 581/605 lift, 114+4) Hooker LT, PYPES dual exhaust with an X pipe, 4L60e with all of the good parts inside, TCI 3500 Super Street Fighter TC, 12 bolt with 3.73 gears. HP Tuner tuned by me

11-06-2009, 01:41 AM	#19
carlrx7 Senior Tuner Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 208	the thing is that i dont think it Blew off? because the car wouldn't even start, as expected. im gonna try some hair spray.
	Location: Charleston, SC