November Issue GM High Tech. Magazine Article "Punch to the mid-section"

[Cantalope Kid]

Article Title (P. 80) : Punch to the Mid Section, Tuning a 2010 Camaro SS Gains 27 lb-ft of Torque and Tons More Under the Curve.

Tuned by http://www.corvettemasters.com/new/index.html.

Anyone else read/see this article? Don't think I can scan in any for viewing purposes due to legal stuff but...

Question: Does it look like they hacked the PE table to command a lower final AFR? Why no MAF/VE table tuning mentioned, hummm?

Using the data from their Hp Tuners screen shots they are commanding in their PE tables the following values (Assuming on my part Stoich is 14.63AFR) -

2,500 RPM-3,500 RPM : 1.204 = 12.15 AFR
4,000 RPM-4,250 RPM: 1.234 = 11.86 AFR
4,500 RPM-8,000 RPM: 1.239 = 11.81 AFR

Yet their data on the dynojet wideband shows they resulted in an actual.

My estimate from screen shot of dynos wideband measurements below -

3,000 RPM: 14.00 AFR
3,350 RPM: 12.25 AFR
3,500 RPM: 12.50 AFR
4,000 RPM: 12.50 AFR
4,500 RPM: 12.45 AFR
5,000 RPM: 12.25 AFR
5,500 RPM: 12.25 AFR
6,000 RPM: 12.25 AFR

My opinion: Shouldn't the commanded AFR be spot on to the actual AFR IF they tuned the MAF/VE as we are expecting from PRO Tuners?

[redhardsupra]

My opinion: Shouldn't the commanded AFR be spot on to the actual AFR IF they tuned the MAF/VE as we are expecting from PRO Tuners?

correct. AFRwb and AFRcommanded will be very close across all conditions only if all your fuel and air estimations are correct, which means properly described hardware, and proper calibrations done on all tables involved.

[04blackgmc]

i was reading this article a few days ago..

[eficalibrator]

My opinion: Shouldn't the commanded AFR be spot on to the actual AFR IF they tuned the MAF/VE as we are expecting from PRO Tuners?

You and Marcin are not alone here...

[RWTD]

HAHA, they got CALLED OUT in a rag article! Damn, that's bad! Good work, Cantalope!

My guess is that since they don't know any better, then 99% of the readers won't either, LOL!

[DSteck]

It's not uncommon for "professional" tuners to just take shortcuts. All they want to do is give a customer a dyno number and get them out of the shop... It seems rare to find somebody who does it the right way.

[omega_5]

It's not uncommon for "professional" tuners to just take shortcuts.

I think there is a 50/50 case with these situations;
Either the shop doesn't care, as they are trying to take the shorter route....
or, the shop tuner is simply not properly educated.

Many of the 'big' shops out there are good at selecting performance parts and pulling wrenches.... but they are just not trained on how to tune a vehicle.

[eficalibrator]

Many of the 'big' shops out there are good at selecting performance parts and pulling wrenches.... but they are just not trained on how to tune a vehicle.

Absolutely correct. The thing that separates them is whether they're comfortable admitting it and go out seeking information/education or if they're complacent in just doing the same 'ol - same 'ol.

[KLUG'S SS]

The really sad thing is that their are alot shops, so called "pro" tuners out there hacking up tunes like this and charging people good money for it.

[Cantalope Kid]

Sent their shop an email. Maybe they can explain this to us? Guys over on www.Camaro5.com are eating up the results. Wish they new the truth!

[Chris@HPTuners]

It's not uncommon for "professional" tuners to just take shortcuts. All they want to do is give a customer a dyno number and get them out of the shop... It seems rare to find somebody who does it the right way.

Even GM themselves How often you seen a flat PE table in a stock tune? Or seen commanded AFR = measured AFR?

[Bill@HPTuners]

Even GM themselves How often you seen a flat PE table in a stock tune? Or seen commanded AFR = measured AFR?

I agree, take a look at a stock TBSS pe table

Can you say rocky mountains?

[RWTD]

One of the reasons GM does it this way is due to the fact that the calibrators are NOT allowed to touch the MAF transfer that is generated on a flow bench. That still does not make it right.

[MNR-0]

I also see it from their point of view. There's more than one way to achieve a similar result.

But I would hardly call a "tune" a "tune" unless commanded AFR = actual AFR - isn't that what you pay for?

If it works for them and it makes money who are we to say it is not successful?

Just another point of view

[eficalibrator]

Even GM themselves How often you seen a flat PE table in a stock tune? Or seen commanded AFR = measured AFR?

I agree, take a look at a stock TBSS pe table

Can you say rocky mountains?

Can you say "LBT, component protection (for that 70k+ warranty), and federal emissions compliance"? The OEM doesn't always have the luxury of just running the simplest, most powerful solution.

[DSteck]

Even GM themselves How often you seen a flat PE table in a stock tune? Or seen commanded AFR = measured AFR?

True, but at least their calibration comes with a warranty.

[J-Rod]

You notice the disclaimer in the article. "If you copy this into your tune you may blow your motor up"...

[Cantalope Kid]

You notice the disclaimer in the article. "If you copy this into your tune you may blow your motor up"...

Yah I really laughed then because technically thats total balogna. The values in the article were actually leaner than the stock setting which IS the reason they made more power in the first place...despite being leaner than stock, they forget just how insane rich the stock tune is. Those values in the article wouldn't blow up any stock 2010...dumb asses!

[excessive]

I think i figured it all out... there website says they do perfomance tuning, thats much different than when we do performance tuning.

[patrickfrommd]

Hey guys, for us newbies to the HP Tuners (and a camaro5 member as well) can you describe what was done on this tune that produced questionable results. Are the results eronious, of is the method to achieve them inappropriate? I got the magazing, and I was quite supprised by the results. Please educate.

P.S. learning lots of good info here, thanks for all yours posts.