EQ <> VE Version 3

[ktoonsez]

I think Bluecat got busy, I have been waiting to put this up here til he said he was ok with it but haven't been able to reach him so here it is.

So after many hundreds of hours here is a new version of the program with all the hooks into HP you could possibly want. Many, many other goodies in here to.

1. It is compiled with .NET 3.5 framework so make sure you have that installed first.

2. It produces the equations almost 10 times faster with the .NET compiler, you can really run it with full precision, takes only 12 seconds on my mediocre laptop with full precision.

3. You can basically do all mods to the VE table right in the program now and then generate the equations and then send the equations to the HP Tuner window. Make sure you have your tune file open and have all 6 equation tables and the 2 boundary tables opened before trying to copy/paste equations from/to HPT.

4. Double click the graph on the main screen to get a blowup view of the graph, once you enable edits you can adjust the curve by holding down the left mouse and move up and down just like HPT.

5. Hold down right mouse and drag to move the graph around.

6. You can modify the numbers in the table right from the VE Table screen by typing into the grid. The VE table screen has some intelligent pasting (Analysis Modifying) options for filling in out of place numbers and numbers with no values (I.E. areas you couldn't hit). When using the Analysis Modifying make sure to highlight the same size area that copied from (Example: if you highlighted the entire row for RPM 800-1600 from the HP Scanner and copied it, highlight that same size area in the VE Table grid in my window before you click the "Analysis Modifying|Apply data from clipboard")

6a. Added another option under "Analysis Modifying" called "Apply HP Scanner Data" and here's how it works. It will highlight the whole table from the HP Scanner histo you have selected and copy the counts and the average values into memory and let you use the same options from #6 above plus lets you specify the minimum count to say it is a valid cell and of course brings up the same grid showing you what the data turned out to be so you modify it or just paste with no modification, works great with the testing I have done, enjoy.

7. When you move your mouse around the Graphs in the main or the blowup screen, watch the upper part of the screen (Toolbar/Menubar area) adn you will see what RPM/MAP and zone you are in.


*** UPDATE 11/28/2008 - Raced my car for the first time today, WOW was that fun!!!!!!! So me and my friend found a few wierd things that I fixed tonight.
LINK is still the same.


1. Fixed bug with pasting data from clipboard option when using Excel or Open office.
2. Added option to enable/disable tooltips, got annoying sometimes for those of us that already know how to use the program.
3. Increased precision behind the scenes, so the slider bar is going to give you even more precision the lower you get.
4. Saving VE table to the 5th decimal for even more precision.
5. HPT window should stay in the same state you have it in (I.E. if it is maximized or normal). I was calling a restore window function that was annoying you miximizers out there. Now I only mess with the window state when you have minmized it.






This has been tested with my LS3 '08 vette using the VE table in LS2 format all others have not been tested and are really not needed with all the tools I have put in here. Just double check things when using my new utilities in the VE table screen as I can probably not come up with every possible scenerio that could be generated.

I think everybody will love this. I am sure this will spawn lots of questions so let them rip.


Here is the link to the new 3.0 Version.
http://209.218.144.226/EQ_VE3.zip

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

saweet

[Ben Diss]

Wow. I'm just floored by this. Not only do I not have to copy/paste anymore, but it's faster too. It also looks to be more accurate.

FANTASTIC! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[ktoonsez]

Thanks Ben! Was alot of hard work to get all the things in there I thought would be useful. Use it with full precision now since it only takes 10 seconds or so, gets much better results, and move the other scroller all the way to "Single Zone" and uncheck "Automatic Zone Boundaries" if you are just fine tuning an already good VE to get even better results.

[Ben Diss]

Interesting how the accuracy varies by playing with the zone boundaries. It actually does a pretty good job of figuring out the optimum boundary, but manually adjusting it can make it even closer.

[ktoonsez]

Oh ya, I am down to the real fine tuning stages and I use full precision and all the way over to "Single ZOne" and it does great, just have one area up high that always gets a bump in it. Can't really figure out why, something to do with whole zone averaging.

[Ben Diss]

I'm still a little fuzzy about the difference between single cell and zone edge. What's that all about?

[ktoonsez]

The best example is from the picture I included in post #1. That is actually my VE table from the '08 corvette. You can really see the big spike up that mine takes right after 3200 RPM but what you can't see too good, is a medium spike that my car likes at 2800 then goes back down a little at 3200 then the big spike at 3600 and up. What will happen if the slider bar is left at default is it will always want to smooth the values between RPM rows and end up knocking down the 2800 little spike to more match 2400 and 3200 and really increase the little dip I need at 3200 to more match 3600.

So in conclusion, when someone is first starting out on there VE table leave the "Sinlge Cell" at 10 and have the "Automatic Zone Boundaries" checked. But after several passes and your table is getting closer to the AFR you want and is smoothing out, remove the check mark and pin the slider to "Single Cell".

Did that make sense?

[Ben Diss]

The best example is from the picture I included in post #1. That is actually my VE table from the '08 corvette. You can really see the big spike up that mine takes right after 3200 RPM but what you can't see too good, is a medium spike that my car likes at 2800 then goes back down a little at 3200 then the big spike at 3600 and up. What will happen if the slider bar is left at default is it will always want to smooth the values between RPM rows and end up knocking down the 2800 little spike to more match 2400 and 3200 and really increase the little dip I need at 3200 to more match 3600.

So in conclusion, when someone is first starting out on there VE table leave the "Sinlge Cell" at 10 and have the "Automatic Zone Boundaries" checked. But after several passes and your table is getting closer to the AFR you want and is smoothing out, remove the check mark and pin the slider to "Single Cell".

Did that make sense?

Yup. I see that now. I went back to some of my first tables and compared them to where I'm at now. I was so far off at first, just getting close made a huge difference. Now, I'm trying to get the AFR error down to 2-3%.

Thanks.

[ktoonsez]

You can do it really easy, I did. What I did was every log I would just keep going until the logger max out and stopped 65000+ frames, be easy with the gas, no sudden movements, nice and easy in and out. Then when I was happy with every MAP under 82, I did logs for just WOT for MAP's 88-105. It turned out great, the car actually "surfs" when going from 5-10 MPH then going WOT, it is so fun. Make sure you have your "Enrichment Rate" at at least 1.5 so you are not fighting the computer so much when it is trying to catch up with throttle movement.

[vette4beater]

ktoonsez,

Do you think i should give this a try to help with my VE tables.

i smoothed them out most of the way. i change the area around idle to be 14.7-15.
it is running alot smoother like that, and really close to commanded.(thanks for the help with that)
it still surges from time to time when going back to idle, but hell i'm doing alot better than before!

[ktoonsez]

This program is for people without VE tables (We have to Equations to make a table). Glad you are doing better, what RPM and MAP is the car at when you are surging? You could be just asking to much of the car, any car like ours is going to surge if you have high MAP at low, low PRM. Call me if you want to talk again.

[vette4beater]

When the car was surging with my Fuel trims disabled it was:
RPM= 535-980
AFR= 13.6-17.9
Kpa= 32-46
timing= 3-26
lows to highs of each, i couldn't figure out how to relay the pattern.

at normal idle later it was:
RPM= 805
AFR= 14.9
Kpa= 35
timing= 14

it didn't surge very often and i liked my cruising and idle AFR later (LTFT disabled).
i attached the scan, most of the surging is at the beginning. sorry you if you can't see the AFR.

[ktoonsez]

What was you speed and gear? If it was say, 45 MPH and you were in 6th gear it is going to surge, just one example.

[vette4beater]

that is idle. it feels fine where it should while driving after warm-up.

it just will surge every now and then when i pull up to a stop light.

i don't want to hijack your thread though, this may be a little off topic for here.

[ktoonsez]

Yes your right, but it's my thread though. If you have some more questions put them back in your post. I would say, if your VE table is nice and smooth and AFR % Error for the RPM's in question are all similar, no big jumps, then we want to start look at reducing or adding timing in those areas.

[vette4beater]

ok,
i will look in those areas and maybe post in my last thread tomorrow afternoon.

thank you

[ktoonsez]

Added "Apply HP Scanner Data" to the "Analysis Modifying" menu in the VE table screen today, enjoy. See (6a) comment from post #1 to see what it does.

[RWTD]

Make sure you have your "Enrichment Rate" at at least 1.5 so you are not fighting the computer so much when it is trying to catch up with throttle movement.

Has anyone ever actually verified that any enrichment rate above 1.0 makes any difference whatsoever? I was under the assumption that it does not.

[ktoonsez]

Has anyone ever actually verified that any enrichment rate above 1.0 makes any difference whatsoever? I was under the assumption that it does not.

Could be all in my head but it seemed to make it a whole lot easier when I jacked mine up to tune when moving the throttle in and out when tuning VE.