New Tuner- 6.0 Truck Norris - need idle help

[1TANK]

Hello all, this is my first tuning adventure with a modified engine. Details are 2003 Silverado 1500 that started as a 4.8 . I installed a 6.0 with 799/243 heads and a BTR Truck Norris Cam with stock exhaust and intake manifolds. The only other modification is the addition of new 6.0 flex fuel injectors (12613412) purchased from the Ebay seller that was recommended by @blindsquirrel here .

For the life of me, I cannot get this thing to idle good enough to start and drive around to start tuning. I have a wideband gauge installed but have not installed the bung and sensor yet. Thanks for any help .

failed idle.hpllatest failed idle.hpt

[C6_Will]

latest failed idle (mod).hpt

If the injector data is correct, this should idle decent enough to get some data. Tune the MAF

[Hondaeater]

Hello all, this is my first tuning adventure with a modified engine. Details are 2003 Silverado 1500 that started as a 4.8 . I installed a 6.0 with 799/243 heads and a BTR Truck Norris Cam with stock exhaust and intake manifolds. The only other modification is the addition of new 6.0 flex fuel injectors (12613412) purchased from the Ebay seller that was recommended by @blindsquirrel here .

For the life of me, I cannot get this thing to idle good enough to start and drive around to start tuning. I have a wideband gauge installed but have not installed the bung and sensor yet. Thanks for any help .

failed idle.hpllatest failed idle.hpt

Need better channels for diagnosis.

This tune has minor changes. I thought I saw this same issue under another thread, may search for it since it also used the BTR cam and it's a 2003. That 107LSA is a pain but the torque curve is flat and fat! Heads make it even better.

Your idle advance is too high. Using your original tune I have lowered that, get some logs at operating temp above 180deg F.

What is your fuel set up?

Fuel pump?

Manifold?

[1TANK]

I actually got it to idle by increasing the base running idle airflow last night, but I know it needs quite a bit of further tuning. Stock Fuel pump, stock intake and exhaust manifolds. I'll check out both of your files. I also updated all of the injector tables from a file I found provided on here by blindsquirrel for those injectors with a referenced press regulator.

Thank you !

[Hondaeater]

If Blindsquirrel gave the injector data you're in very good shape there.

The channels list from Post#3 is going to reveal what is needed in the BRA not guess work. Also lowering the idle timing allows enough torque headroom, you are at 28deg and that is probably best MAP vacuum but nothing left over to catch the idle of that cam.
It is a balance act between BRA and timing. Lower timing you must get that torque back with more airflow and vice versa.

Save the channels you have now using the floppy icon above the channels list.
Close any current log open.
Click the folder with gear icon above channels list, Open Channel config.
and migrate to the channels I posted that you downloaded.
Make new logs using those channels.

Stay tuned.

[1TANK]

If Blindsquirrel gave the injector data you're in very good shape there.

The channels list from Post#3 is going to reveal what is needed in the BRA not guess work. Also lowering the idle timing allows enough torque headroom, you are at 28deg and that is probably best MAP vacuum but nothing left over to catch the idle of that cam.
It is a balance act between BRA and timing. Lower timing you must get that torque back with more airflow and vice versa.

Save the channels you have now using the floppy icon above the channels list.
Close any current log open.
Click the folder with gear icon above channels list, Open Channel config.
and migrate to the channels I posted that you downloaded. File would not open with the Scanner
Make new logs using those channels.

Stay tuned.

I got it to idle decent after fiddling with it today, it wanted much more base running idle airflow and would not start or run with the other tunes provided. I downloaded your config file but VCMScanner would not open it, gave me an error . Here is my latest tune and log . After getting it to idle, I tried to use maths provided by a Youtuber(GRG) to try and log MAF error, but realized he was using a wideband. After installing my new AEM 30-0300 wideband today, I only get an error on the screen

[Hondaeater]

What was the Error while trying to use a channel list? Did you follow the instructions on how to open channel config (Folder icon w gear above the channel list) not the file folder for scanner?
If that folder is greyed out, you must 1st close the current log. Then follow the previous posted instructions.

How do you have the WB connected to your MPVI interface?

What Suite version of hpt are you using and which interface device MPVI_?

With the lower idle rpm in my tune sent it should have had enough air at operating temp or STIT to correct the error.
The tune I posted has the MAF set to fail. Make another histogram and user math using your ve table parameters. You have to pick 1 or the other and SD/VE table is used for transient and more even in MAF only so I like to get VE dialed in first. Your choice.

Is TB stock??

[reubone]

There is more to idle quality in this year model than base running airflow alone. I'm not talking about maf settings and injector data either. I mean there is more in the idle airflow window that will get you what you need for stable idle and good drivability. If your base running airflow is getting ridiculously high (over 15g/s) in the normal operating temp range with such a small cam, you need to make different tune table modifications. The old RAF logging strategy will work in most cases but sometimes a combination need a more in depth approach. Your desired idle airflow channel should be added in this case and compared to actual airflow at idle. Also if your idle timing is maxed out or above 20* you need to make further adjustments to get the timing advance down. As far your fueling goes, of course having the incorrect injector data and fuel control settings will make tuning Idle more difficult but you don't need a wideband in every situation to correct this. The factory controls and o2's are more than capable in 90% of street applications to tune Idle and cruising fuel. Your fuel trims will tell you most of everything you need to know about the accuracy of your initial data. Use the wideband for WOT fueling and let your closed loop handle the rest as long as you have both front o2's and you can trust the integrity of your intake and exhaust system. Post up your latest tune file iteration and logs.

[1TANK]

What was the Error while trying to use a channel list? Did you follow the instructions on how to open channel config (Folder icon w gear above the channel list) not the file folder for scanner?
If that folder is greyed out, you must 1st close the current log. Then follow the previous posted instructions.

How do you have the WB connected to your MPVI interface?

What Suite version of hpt are you using and which interface device MPVI_?

With the lower idle rpm in my tune sent it should have had enough air at operating temp or STIT to correct the error.
The tune I posted has the MAF set to fail. Make another histogram and user math using your ve table parameters. You have to pick 1 or the other and SD/VE table is used for transient and more even in MAF only so I like to get VE dialed in first. Your choice.

Is TB stock??

Hondaeater, I got your config file to work, and logged an idle from cold start to operating temp. It is attached. I also did some driving with what I think was MAF only and logged LTFT and tried to make adjustments to my MAF by multiplying by half % each time, but I don' think I made a damn bit of difference. Starting to think I am not smart enough for this . . Also I am using an MPVI2 with version 5.0.4 of Hptuners.

[1TANK]

Think I figured out what I did wrong on LTFT MAF graph. I did not have a - sign in the Low column, pretty sure I was going the wrong way, LOL. Gonna try again.

[1TANK]

Well, idle still sucks, especially in gear and A/C on(dies), but I feel like I am moving in the right direction on part throttle MAF tuning anyway . Latest log and tune attached.

[Hondaeater]

I hope you changed the tune file into MAF only, it was set up for ve only. When I get back to my PC I will take a look at what you got. Post the tune file you used to make these logs please always try to label the log and the tune file used. Dates on the log don't identify which file was used to create it. It's just good file management the things can get confused or complicated when there's days sometimes a week or more between iterations. Just a suggestion

[reubone]

tune as of now 5-17-23try.hpt

Give that a try and see what it does for your idle

[1TANK]

I hope you changed the tune file into MAF only, it was set up for ve only. When I get back to my PC I will take a look at what you got. Post the tune file you used to make these logs please always try to label the log and the tune file used. Dates on the log don't identify which file was used to create it. It's just good file management the things can get confused or complicated when there's days sometimes a week or more between iterations. Just a suggestion

No, I soon realized my error today and have been driving around tuning PE, which believe it or not when done correctly actually does make a difference . Ha!

[Hondaeater]

Think I figured out what I did wrong on LTFT MAF graph. I did not have a - sign in the Low column, pretty sure I was going the wrong way, LOL. Gonna try again.

The Low and high is only for color, it will populate if the parameter is set up right regardless of those hi lo settings. But using red and blue or red and green can help visually.

I do not see the WB input?

Do not start tuning the AC ON until the BRA and other idle parameters are set. It takes a little while to get this set up but then most of GM strategy works without adjusting much of it. This is where things go off the tracks.

It is so confusing which file did you use to get the cold start idle log? I see that it was probably the tune I posted before because the idle spark is 20deg like I set it. It is obvious the VE needed to be lowered from the latest failed idle spark tune but I wanted to see where it was. I do not think you used that file as there is so many other things changed between that one and the LTFT maf step 2 tune file.

I do not know where that latest failed idle file came from but unless I start over I try to let it ride and see what it does 1st with the proper channels list.

Things like the EGR airflow, DFCO, COT enable, etc because I do not know enough about your build to make those changes. Lowering the VE was a good start at the idle portion. Depending on which file was used it looks like it needs even less in that 400-1200rpm at 65-50kPa, about 10 percent less. If you make another log at cold start and post the tune used to make it, name it something relative to the tune and function, like truck VE 01.hpt then truck VE 01 cold start.hpl or truck VE 01 drive.hpl or 1Tank MAF 01.hpt something like that. Make it relevant.
Adding notes to the details of the build is very helpful.
Check out the pics I hope they help.


You can turn off the LTFT in idle but I would at least clear the LTFT using the green button special functions in Scanner. Each time you update the tables it should be reset/cleared and then go drive it for about 10 minutes around town to let the new table settings have some data in memory. Drive as smooth of a throttle change as possible, meaning you do not want to be stabbing at the Throttle off and on all the drive, instead move minimizing the big changes to TPS%. If you go from say 10% TPS to 35%, ok but now hold at 35% for a while to gather data before making another big change in TPS. This will start the LTFT memory with good data. Even a gradual increase will work but smooth not necessarily real slow just smooth and NOT Off-ON-OFF the gas that is the worst data. It takes a long time to get consistent data. Just use the LTFT+ STFT or OL with the WB. I do not see the WB so I guess you have not got that input into the Scanner.

[Hondaeater]

Well, idle still sucks, especially in gear and A/C on(dies), but I feel like I am moving in the right direction on part throttle MAF tuning anyway . Latest log and tune attached.

Your MAF is failed so as I posted in the pics select which fuel model you are going to tune, VE only set that Airflow MAF fail hz to 0 or very low and the Airfow Dynamic high like 8000rpm . MAF obviously fails at 10Hz as shown in the details below the channels list picture but setting it to 0 will work too for VE, if you want to tune MAF set that to 13,500hz and the Airflow Dynamic low like you have it now. DTCs are set to fail maf P0101-P0103 on 1st error which should be fine but when tuning MAF you may want to set those back to MIL on 2nd error if you have any issues.

[1TANK]

The Low and high is only for color, it will populate if the parameter is set up right regardless of those hi lo settings. But using red and blue or red and green can help visually.

I do not see the WB input?

Do not start tuning the AC ON until the BRA and other idle parameters are set. It takes a little while to get this set up but then most of GM strategy works without adjusting much of it. This is where things go off the tracks.

It is so confusing which file did you use to get the cold start idle log? I see that it was probably the tune I posted before because the idle spark is 20deg like I set it. It is obvious the VE needed to be lowered from the latest failed idle spark tune but I wanted to see where it was. I do not think you used that file as there is so many other things changed between that one and the LTFT maf step 2 tune file.

I do not know where that latest failed idle file came from but unless I start over I try to let it ride and see what it does 1st with the proper channels list.

Things like the EGR airflow, DFCO, COT enable, etc because I do not know enough about your build to make those changes. Lowering the VE was a good start at the idle portion. Depending on which file was used it looks like it needs even less in that 400-1200rpm at 65-50kPa, about 10 percent less. If you make another log at cold start and post the tune used to make it, name it something relative to the tune and function, like truck VE 01.hpt then truck VE 01 cold start.hpl or truck VE 01 drive.hpl or 1Tank MAF 01.hpt something like that. Make it relevant.
Adding notes to the details of the build is very helpful.
Check out the pics I hope they help.


You can turn off the LTFT in idle but I would at least clear the LTFT using the green button special functions in Scanner. Each time you update the tables it should be reset/cleared and then go drive it for about 10 minutes around town to let the new table settings have some data in memory. Drive as smooth of a throttle change as possible, meaning you do not want to be stabbing at the Throttle off and on all the drive, instead move minimizing the big changes to TPS%. If you go from say 10% TPS to 35%, ok but now hold at 35% for a while to gather data before making another big change in TPS. This will start the LTFT memory with good data. Even a gradual increase will work but smooth not necessarily real slow just smooth and NOT Off-ON-OFF the gas that is the worst data. It takes a long time to get consistent data. Just use the LTFT+ STFT or OL with the WB. I do not see the WB so I guess you have not got that input into the Scanner.

I am very sorry for the confusion. My brand new AEM wideband gave me an error as soon as I plugged in the oxygen sensor harness, so for now I am using LTFT to do part throttle tuning . Thanks for your patience. I did actually make some strides this morning dialing in the VE table(with the MAF failed correctly this time). I am waiting to hear back from AEM on a warranty issue, with no response from them for two days now .

[1TANK]

tune as of now 5-17-23try.hpt

Give that a try and see what it does for your idle

Started and idled, but died as soon as I put in gear.

[reubone]

did you get a log?

[reubone]

tune as of now 5-17-23try2.hpt