Does this need more work? LQ4, 706 heads BTR v2 stage 2 truck cam.

[Matt Vardaman]

FINALLY got a chance to test this tune out. It seems pretty close, but still needs a little work, I think. Regardless, both the EGR and tune changes were definitely a great help. Is there anything alarming with this drive log? I started out smooth and finished with some heavier throttle once I felt a little more secure about the tune. I feel this would be a great point to where I can install the 50lb injectors and continue the VE tuning, followed up by the timing adjustments. The high octane table is currently -5 degrees from the stock map.

Your recent maf adjustments were very minute changes which is good. I would recommend change the Power enrichment TPS percentage to 60%-70%. If you notice there is a hot and cold table. Your hot table is set reasonable(but is disabled), but the cold table is 40-45% tps and has you going into PE when you don't need it @25:06. & 27:31 It shows you are 10% lean on the wideband, but you aren't really because you shouldn't be in PE at that load. I hope that makes sense. I am running the later model 50lb flex injectors in my truck currently. Here is a copy of one of my tunes to use as comparison if you want.

3-3-22 2002 Tahoe tune Dynamic.3.hpt

[Matt Vardaman]

Something else to note: Long term fuel trims that are positive numbers will add to the PE. LTFT's that are negative will be brought up to zero. Once I got my tune dialed in, I leave the long terms off. The short term trims handle the fueling just fine.

Edit: As I looked into your log further, you have high amounts of knock retard. Its mostly at high load (cyl Airmass) and lower rpm. I had some mild spark knock when I started too. Put the cursor at the peak of the knock retard, and pull that timing from the spark table at that rpm. Such as 7* of knock at 1600rpm and cylinder airmass of .62-.68.

When you get the timing dialed in, it will feel like another animal. Especially since your peak timing is 3* now and you can run 20-25* at peak depending on octane/quality of fuel. My 6.0/4l80e truck runs 24* on 93 octane, and it's sole purpose is pulling the boat/camper.

[MrGuy]

Your recent maf adjustments were very minute changes which is good. I would recommend change the Power enrichment TPS percentage to 60%-70%. If you notice there is a hot and cold table. Your hot table is set reasonable(but is disabled), but the cold table is 40-45% tps and has you going into PE when you don't need it @25:06. & 27:31 It shows you are 10% lean on the wideband, but you aren't really because you shouldn't be in PE at that load. I hope that makes sense. I am running the later model 50lb flex injectors in my truck currently. Here is a copy of one of my tunes to use as comparison if you want.

3-3-22 2002 Tahoe tune Dynamic.3.hpt

Thanks!

[MrGuy]

Something else to note: Long term fuel trims that are positive numbers will add to the PE. LTFT's that are negative will be brought up to zero. Once I got my tune dialed in, I leave the long terms off. The short term trims handle the fueling just fine.

Edit: As I looked into your log further, you have high amounts of knock retard. Its mostly at high load (cyl Airmass) and lower rpm. I had some mild spark knock when I started too. Put the cursor at the peak of the knock retard, and pull that timing from the spark table at that rpm. Such as 7* of knock at 1600rpm and cylinder airmass of .62-.68.

When you get the timing dialed in, it will feel like another animal. Especially since your peak timing is 3* now and you can run 20-25* at peak depending on octane/quality of fuel. My 6.0/4l80e truck runs 24* on 93 octane, and it's sole purpose is pulling the boat/camper.

Thanks for the suggestion. I feel that my timing table and yours will be different though. The 706 heads bring up the compression about 1 full point. In the end, if needed, I'll just take it for a dyno tune. Being a parent with 2 jobs and night school doesn't allow me much time to tune. Plus, gas is pretty expensive and the tune cost would almost offset the cost I would have spent in fuel.

[Matt Vardaman]

Thanks for the suggestion. I feel that my timing table and yours will be different though. The 706 heads bring up the compression about 1 full point. In the end, if needed, I'll just take it for a dyno tune. Being a parent with 2 jobs and night school doesn't allow me much time to tune. Plus, gas is pretty expensive and the tune cost would almost offset the cost I would have spent in fuel.

I can definitely relate to limited time and money. You asked if anything was alarming in the log, the knock retard is very alarming. Best of luck.

[MrGuy]

I was able to get some more drive time in. I've gotten close to having the VE dialed in. How would I go about adjusting the timing now? So I just take the knock retard table and subtract it from the high octane table? Also, I should be able to swap out the OE injectors for 50lb ones? What settings do I need to change for the new injectors and should I start the VE process over again or just subtract a percentage from the current table? I included my scanner set-up.

[Matt Vardaman]

Ok, let's start with timing, but yes you can run the larger 50lb 6.2 flex fuel injectors in your truck. There are lots of detailed posts on this forum (search). I'm attaching a screenshot of your Spark table vs. mine on the low octane table. You have the low octane copied to the high octane table. There needs to be a difference between the two, so the vcm can accomplish knock learn factor. Basically it starts on the high octane, then as it sees knock it will start to blend the high octane with the low octane table. What fuel are you going to run?

On the screenshot I circled where every truck I have tuned has some spark knock. I have between 1-5 degrees less timing than you do in that spot. That area in the spark map is usually when you are in 3rd or 4th gear in lock up, and doing between 40-55mph. Knock mostly occurs at High Load and Low rpm. If running 93 it might knock a little, if running 87 it can pull 2-5* for knock.

If you look at the high Rpm area of the table I have 15* and you have 3-5*
You can add 10 degrees to the high rpm, higher cylinder airmass portion of the table, but you should also remove some timing in that circled portion of the screen shot.

If i was tuning your truck, you would end up somewhere around 15 degrees peak timing low octane, and 20 degrees on the high octane. That's super safe and will make a massive change from the stock neutered spark table. I'll attach a tune for you to use as a compare file. Hope this helps you.

This file is one from a mailorder tune.
My2001 Silverado Mailorder tune.hpt





Sparkknock rpm .png

[Matt Vardaman]

Before you do anything with the timing, go to the knock sensor tab then burst knock. Disable burst knock. Either max out the enable delta table to 8.0 or 7.9, or zero that burst spark table. Then go logging again to see how much knock retard you actually have.

[MrGuy]

Before you do anything with the timing, go to the knock sensor tab then burst knock. Disable burst knock. Either max out the enable delta table to 8.0 or 7.9, or zero that burst spark table. Then go logging again to see how much knock retard you actually have.

Kevin already had me adjust the knock sensors, should I adjust them more?

[MrGuy]

Ok, let's start with timing, but yes you can run the larger 50lb 6.2 flex fuel injectors in your truck. There are lots of detailed posts on this forum (search). I'm attaching a screenshot of your Spark table vs. mine on the low octane table. You have the low octane copied to the high octane table. There needs to be a difference between the two, so the vcm can accomplish knock learn factor. Basically it starts on the high octane, then as it sees knock it will start to blend the high octane with the low octane table. What fuel are you going to run?

On the screenshot I circled where every truck I have tuned has some spark knock. I have between 1-5 degrees less timing than you do in that spot. That area in the spark map is usually when you are in 3rd or 4th gear in lock up, and doing between 40-55mph. Knock mostly occurs at High Load and Low rpm. If running 93 it might knock a little, if running 87 it can pull 2-5* for knock.

If you look at the high Rpm area of the table I have 15* and you have 3-5*
You can add 10 degrees to the high rpm, higher cylinder airmass portion of the table, but you should also remove some timing in that circled portion of the screen shot.

If i was tuning your truck, you would end up somewhere around 15 degrees peak timing low octane, and 20 degrees on the high octane. That's super safe and will make a massive change from the stock neutered spark table. I'll attach a tune for you to use as a compare file. Hope this helps you.

This file is one from a mailorder tune.
My2001 Silverado Mailorder tune.hpt





Sparkknock rpm .png

So add more timing where it's knocking?

Also, the lq4 with 706 heads the compression is higher than a 5.3.. does that matter?

[Matt Vardaman]

[QUOTE=MrGuy;681358]So add more timing where it's knock

So add more timing where it's knocking?

Also, the lq4 with 706 heads the compression is higher than a 5.3.. does that matter?

No, take timing away (remove) in the Area i circled on the Screenshot. Remove timing where the knock is occuring, start with half the amount. Did you look at the picture? Kevin had you increase knock recovery rate. Burst knock is still enabled which makes it difficult to make sure it's actually knocking because the engine is much louder with a camshaft and headers. Also, Fuel tuning should be finished before working on timing. I work on timing in Closed Loop. You are still in Open Loop in your log, so I assume you are tuning the MAF now? Because if you are trying to tune VE in that log, the MAF is not failed.

I had a longer message typed up trying to explain in great detail, but deleted it.
I Made you a spark table based on where most of your knock occurs, I made a low and high octane table for you. It's safe and reasonable based on your combo. It's really low on timing comparatively speaking.

Trial final tune - Kevin87Turbot adjustments 2 - Timing table.hpt

[MrGuy]

[QUOTE=Matt Vardaman;681384]

So add more timing where it's knock

No, take timing away (remove) in the Area i circled on the Screenshot. Remove timing where the knock is occuring, start with half the amount. Did you look at the picture? Kevin had you increase knock recovery rate. Burst knock is still enabled which makes it difficult to make sure it's actually knocking because the engine is much louder with a camshaft and headers. Also, Fuel tuning should be finished before working on timing. I work on timing in Closed Loop. You are still in Open Loop in your log, so I assume you are tuning the MAF now? Because if you are trying to tune VE in that log, the MAF is not failed.

I had a longer message typed up trying to explain in great detail, but deleted it.
I Made you a spark table based on where most of your knock occurs, I made a low and high octane table for you. It's safe and reasonable based on your combo. It's really low on timing comparatively speaking.

Trial final tune - Kevin87Turbot adjustments 2 - Timing table.hpt

Thanks, I was just trying to clarify. Also, I was tuning VE with that drive. I searched on here for a "how-to" and followed the settings to tune VE, I found the settings on LS1 tech. This has also been something that I've been struggling with since there are so many different "how to" posts/videos out there. I've gotten to the point where I'm starting to not trust anyone of them. I respect the fact that you and Kevin have taken the time to help me out though. Sorry, if I question things. I am really trying but I also struggle with finding the proper posts or videos to follow along with or learn from

[blindsquirrel]

I used to jump on that hard too, not seeing a P0102/103 in the Details tab - but even if the DTCs are set to First Error the codes won't show up in the Details tab on the first run cycle after a flash, even though they are there if you scan it with a different tool and if it's being logged MAF Sensor State will show 'MAF Fail'. So it can sometimes be properly in SD but not look like it if you go only by the DTCs in the Details tab.

[mjc79]

Check out ChopperDoc181's videos on youtube. After i got my scanner setup situation all straightened out his videos are working for me with no issues so far. Hope you find those videos helpful as he explains in detail how stuff works and what to change and how the changes make an impact instead of half arsing it like alot of others do on there that don't show much of anything leaving you guessing.

[Matt Vardaman]

I used to jump on that hard too, not seeing a P0102/103 in the Details tab - but even if the DTCs are set to First Error the codes won't show up in the Details tab on the first run cycle after a flash, even though they are there if you scan it with a different tool and if it's being logged MAF Sensor State will show 'MAF Fail'. So it can sometimes be properly in SD but not look like it if you go only by the DTCs in the Details tab.

Thanks for the clarification. I just didn't want him to have his entire data set be skewed.

[Matt Vardaman]

[QUOTE=MrGuy;681432]

Thanks, I was just trying to clarify. Also, I was tuning VE with that drive. I searched on here for a "how-to" and followed the settings to tune VE, I found the settings on LS1 tech. This has also been something that I've been struggling with since there are so many different "how to" posts/videos out there. I've gotten to the point where I'm starting to not trust anyone of them. I respect the fact that you and Kevin have taken the time to help me out though. Sorry, if I question things. I am really trying but I also struggle with finding the proper posts or videos to follow along with or learn from

I apologize for being rude. There is a massive amount of information to process when you are starting out. You are doing fine. Blindsquirrel clarified about the details tab of a log file not showing maf fail dtcs. I want you to be successful.

[MrGuy]

[QUOTE=Matt Vardaman;681445]

I apologize for being rude. There is a massive amount of information to process when you are starting out. You are doing fine. Blindsquirrel clarified about the details tab of a log file not showing maf fail dtcs. I want you to be successful.

I didn't take your comment as rude. I'm pretty laid back, I just get frustrated with bad info. Really, no worries.. this is one of the many joys of communication over text and not in person or face to face. A person can not tell emotion, tone of voice, or sarcasm over text.

I included the tune that I ran, which I had the MAF set to zero and I had the CEL set to light on first error. How do I confirm that I'm running in the propper loop setting?

[MrGuy]

Check out ChopperDoc181's videos on youtube. After i got my scanner setup situation all straightened out his videos are working for me with no issues so far. Hope you find those videos helpful as he explains in detail how stuff works and what to change and how the changes make an impact instead of half arsing it like alot of others do on there that don't show much of anything leaving you guessing.

Thanks, I made the mistake of following goat rope on YouTube.

[kevin87turbot]

[QUOTE=MrGuy;681581]

I didn't take your comment as rude. I'm pretty laid back, I just get frustrated with bad info. Really, no worries.. this is one of the many joys of communication over text and not in person or face to face. A person can not tell emotion, tone of voice, or sarcasm over text.

I included the tune that I ran, which I had the MAF set to zero and I had the CEL set to light on first error. How do I confirm that I'm running in the propper loop setting?

In your Scanner channels, you can add the MAF status so that you'll know for sure if it's been failed or not.

[Matt Vardaman]

[QUOTE=kevin87turbot;681615]

In your Scanner channels, you can add the MAF status so that you'll know for sure if it's been failed or not.

It was not in his log's scanner details. That is why I mentioned it. Then I learned this:

I used to jump on that hard too, not seeing a P0102/103 in the Details tab - but even if the DTCs are set to First Error the codes won't show up in the Details tab on the first run cycle after a flash, even though they are there if you scan it with a different tool and if it's being logged MAF Sensor State will show 'MAF Fail'. So it can sometimes be properly in SD but not look like it if you go only by the DTCs in the Details tab.

So Maf status would let him know 100% that it is failed.