30# injector Values

[Redline MS]

Where would one find the math/formulas to convent the data from Ford to GM...pm me if that's better. I would feel like a real tuner if I could figure it out lol

Ford flows and rates there injectors differently then GM does. They use a high and low slope valve which are values that are relative to the "dead time" and response of the injector. There is no simple conversion calculator to do this.

As far as I am concerned, the IFR table is the easiest to obtain and populate values with....its the other stuff that is the real trick.

An IFR table is based upon a static flow of the injector. Change the pressure....change the flow. Even if you screw up the IFR by 5%....the VE table can be fudged (not recommended) and you can get a car to run good but not right. Bad offsets, min pulse and short pulse and you chase your ass around with drivability problems and funny fuel errors.

I still can't believe that the aftermarket companies don't provide this info when you buy a set of injectors. How stupid is this? I can understand GM playing standoff but the aftermarket knows damn well what we are using these for!

Honestly I don't think most of them have a clue about this stuff. Most of the people in the injector business I have spoke to where idiots!

Howard

[golfinz]

Were you able to figure the offsets/pulses out by trial and error or did you have a basic understanding of what they did and how the effected the injector/fueling and you went from there? If the later, could you elaborate on how those effect the injectors/fueling, or at least the theory behind those tables?

[[email protected]]

Ford flows and rates there injectors differently then GM does. They use a high and low slope valve which are values that are relative to the "dead time" and response of the injector. There is no simple conversion calculator to do this.

I still can't believe that the aftermarket companies don't provide this info when you buy a set of injectors. How stupid is this? I can understand GM playing standoff but the aftermarket knows damn well what we are using these for!

Honestly I don't think most of them have a clue about this stuff. Most of the people in the injector business I have spoke to where idiots!

Howard

I agree 100% with what you've said. I have some datasheets on some aftermarket injectors that you are welcome to have. I've got some datasheets from Lucas that are rated like the Fords, with a high and low slope.

I plan to include the datasheets in our injector collection I'm making up, everyone will have access to it. I also plan to search for as many as I can dig up, and hopefully for all the popular aftermarket ones we can get them. They must be somewhere, and with as many members as this place has, someone's got em in a mattress somewhere. LOL

I did actually find one company with a very smart injector guy, so if you want to know him let me know. I can put you in touch.

Bob

[Phil'sC5Vette]

Instead of collecting a bunch of internet "village wisdom", one would think it's more accurate to just use known good OEM data. Ford posted everything you need to know on their FRPP website. Anyone bright enough to train people (and charge for the training) on this stuff should be able to translate this from Ford to GM units. Is everyone just waiting for me to post this stuff so they can copy my homework and claim it as their own?

People look silly with keyboard muscle.

[Cantalope Kid]

People look silly with keyboard muscle.

So true. I was thinking the same thing when I read his big headed response.

[eficalibrator]

Perhaps I'm a bit abrasive, but at least I'm pushing people in the right direction. There's a difference between blindly groping for a solution and using solid math and science to properly tune a vehicle. I won't force anyone to do it the right way, but I will at least point out the facts for everyone to see.

Here's a writeup I did to demonstrate the importance of getting this right.

These are the basics, folks. If you don't get this right, almost everything you do moving forward based on these assumptions is wrong. Skipping over this stuff is not trivial.

[Nitroused383]

If its so basic why is there no handly formulas out there for how to turn Ford's info into something we can use? Very basic, but know one has a clue on how to transfer the info accurately?

[redhardsupra]

not everything is a 'handy formula', the conversion from ford to gm specs is quite involved

[mowton]

This is an interesting thread. I have pre-ordered Gregs next book and look forward to it being shipped by Amazon.com.

I am a bit confused with the specs on the "generic" injectors called SVO #30. I have always used the values stated in this thread and others for my injectors with the part number 280-150-945 / F1SE-E5A. Now when I look up the flow ratings I see they are rated 29.4 @ 36 psi.....this results in a IFR of 37.7 to 41.3 which is much higher than the 34.6 to 38? What am I missing here? I have just finished my VE/MAF tuning for the new LS2 shortblock setup and have the idle great, stopping/landing smooth and trims at +/- 2% and am ready to hit the Dyno......does that mean I have "compensated" for wrong IFR values.

Thanks for all the knowledge and providing your expertise to us driveway tuners I've attached a copy of the tune, not sure if needed.

[Nitroused383]

36.58320 36.83122 37.01724 37.26526 37.51328 37.69930 37.94732 38.13334 38.38136 38.56738 38.81540 39.00141 39.24943 39.43545 39.68347 39.86949 40.05551

Those are the values I am using based off the red SVO injectors that were independtly flow tested. Flow test was performed at 39 PSI and they flowed 315cc's or 30lbs.

These are the M-9593-BB302 and here is the calibration summary. I made up an offset table and everything appears to be close, except I am still trying to figure out how to make the short pulse adder table. Here is the calibration summary page directly from ford http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts...9593-bb302.pdf

[bigfatls6]

here is what i came up with based on gregs DVD and injector sheet
36.70721 36.95523 37.20326 37.38927 37.63729 37.88532 38.07133 38.31935 38.50537 38.75339 38.93941 39.18743 39.37345 39.62147 39.80748 40.05551 40.24152