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Thread: 1995 Camaro with 06 LS7 swap Code P0606

  1. #1
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    1995 Camaro with 06 LS7 swap Code P0606

    Hoping someone can help me out with this one.

    My customer has a 1995 camaro (original LT1 car) with an 06 LS7 GM crate engine swapped into it. The only thing done to the engine itself is an intake, set of long tube headers and then unfortunately into that traditional camaro 3" y-pipe and everything is mated to a T56 6-speed tranny. Another shop did all the work to the car including getting it up and running originally. It has the normal drivability issues (stalling, serging, hard starts, etc) and wanted them fixed. I have been tuning these cars exclusively with HPT over the last few years (have done a few C5's and C6's, supercharged and tt) so I figured it would be no big deal. When I went to connect to the computer it would fail at the authentication process and not go any further. I found this strange as it was the first time I had seen this error. I got ahold of HPT and was told that the computer had been locked by someone else and that it would either have to be replaced with a stock computer or unlocked by whoever locked it.

    I then started to do some research on the car and where everything came from. I found out that in addition to the aftermarket "plug and play" engine harness they also installed an aftermarket ecu from the same company. I called up the company and was told that it was ordered over two years ago and that no one there would of locked the file. They did tell me to send the ecu back to them and they would then send me a stock ecm untouched for me to work with. I figured all I would have to do is disable the vats and be on my way. A week goes by and the new ecu shows up. I plug it in and sure enough I get the same error message, fails at the authentication process of the read. So of course with the VATS still enabled in this "stock" ecu the car does not fire. I call the company back and he basically has no clue, says that they don't lock the files but at the same time can't tell me what software they use to tune them in the first place. At this point I kind of think they outsource the ecu work and might not know the answers I need. I will leave the name of the company out as It doesn't help solve my problem.

    From there I kind of went out on a limb and ordered a brand new ecu from GM for an 06 ZO6 corvette. I have a customer who has an 08 zo6 tt that we did last year so when the ecu came in he brought his car in, had the dealership install the new ecu into his car and flash it with his stock file and os (the dealship can't do bench flashes here for some reason). They then removed the ecu and put his back in. When I got the ecu back from my customer I flashed in a stock file from an 06 zo6, did a full write and the car fired right up but when I went to read the file back out of the computer it came back with that great error saying vin/os missmatch. I then changed the VIN number to match the OS and everything worked as it should.

    First thing I noticed though is that the car is not charging, 12.0-12.2 at the ignition. Check into the alternator and the wiring and it turns out that there should be three wires running to the alt in an 06 LS7, two back to the computer and a 12v "alt sense" wire. The two back to the computer were there but the 12v wire was not in the harness, so after running that wire the car charges 14.1 at idle. Next thing I checked was the oil pressure and sure enough that is not pinned into the harness. They have one wire coming out of it to make the gauge in the original cluster work. After talking to a few people I am not convinced this is a problem as a lot of the swap harnesses are laid out in a similar manner and the car is working fine at this point. Remove all the other codes that need to be removed anyway and off to street tuning.

    I take the car out on the street for a few hours and get everything in the bottom end of the tune worked out. Car drives really nice and all drivability issues are gone. From there I strapped the car down to the dynojet dyno that we have been using and Finnish tuning the car for wot. Spend about an hour on the dyno with it and things are going pretty good then all of a sudden I start to make a pull and the car goes into limp mode, I lose all throttle control and the car comes down to an idle. The code that concerns me is P0606 pcm internal fault. I cleared the code and the car came back to life so I made another pull and everything was fine again. I finished up on the dyno and the car ended up putting down 466rwhp and 444rwtq, not too bad for an intake and questionable exhaust. At this point I'm happy, the car is happy and the customer will be happy, then came the road test.

    It seems that when you are out on the road the car drives great till you really step on the gas. Any sudden wot condition seems to trip this p0606 code and the car goes into limp mode. I clear the code and the car comes back to life. I was able to do one good pull with it out on the street without it setting this code and it really worked good, but obviously that is not good enough.

    Things that I have tried are making sure that all traction control is off, that the airflow tables and etc settings have enough head room for sudden TB changes (I think), the etc opening rate is all set to 100% effectively disabling that. I have not seen this problem on any other cars but after reading about the different os's for the E36's and swapping between older and newer os's on other forums, and not knowing exactly how the car was put together and the problems right from the get go I'm starting to scratch my head. At this point I'm not sure if it is something missing from the harness itself, the ecu or something I am missing in the tune. I have also read that different pedal setups can have an effect on the I am hoping that someone here can point me in the right direction as I would love to give this customer his car back but I can't do that till I get it to work right at wot.
    Last edited by raven3800t; 10-21-2010 at 03:30 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Tuner IDRIVEAG8GT's Avatar
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    That sounds like a ground fault, like you're losing ground going from the coils to the block. When it trips this P0606 code, do any of the gauges on the dash do something out of the ordinary?
    Gray Ghost- The abomination. 2007 Chevrolet Silverado CCSB. 98mm turbo, nitrous, 428LSX, Rossler 80E with a brake. Finally finished. 23 psi, no numbers, Slow as hell.

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  3. #3
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    I want to say yes they sweep to zero and then come back but honestly I don't rememeber now. I will check that out in the morning.

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    Another thing I just thought of is the customer told me that they had a hard time getting the factory guages to work and he had a guy come in and use some resistor boxes (I think) on the wires to make them accurate. Now you have my thinking here that could be a part of the problem? And I have seen the cluster do weird things like cycle on and off and strange times and I'm pretty sure that does happen when the car goes into limp mode.

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    You said you had a VIN/OS mismatch. That tends to indicate you may have the incorrect initial tune in there. What are the two VINs in question?

  6. #6
    Senior Tuner IDRIVEAG8GT's Avatar
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    Usually that is a bad 5-Volt Reference somewhere in the system then. If anythig read by you sub cluster of gauges reads faulty due to losing voltage/ground, the car will immediately go into Limp Home mode. LSX brought up an interesting point though. I'd look into that. (he always ends everything with a smiley lmao.)
    Gray Ghost- The abomination. 2007 Chevrolet Silverado CCSB. 98mm turbo, nitrous, 428LSX, Rossler 80E with a brake. Finally finished. 23 psi, no numbers, Slow as hell.

    PBM G8- Aluminum 364, twin Precision 67/66 turbos, 6L90 trans swap, CTS-V/Vaporworx fuel system, slowly making progress.

    Dads 2011 CTS-V- Stock bottom end, stock heads, LS9 cam, pullies, ported blower, ported TB, D3 goodies, and lots of nitrous.
    618/618 motor
    906/862 spray

    Caterpillar 50 Forklift- Duramax swap

  7. #7
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    I didn't get a chance to look at the car today, was tuning a 2010 camaro ss, but tomorrow I should be able to get a few hours on it.

    I only got the vin/os erro the first day when I originally flashed the file. I changed the vin's and have not had that error since. I can read and write to the computer just fine. If it is a 5V reference issue then I really should pin in the oil pressure sensor the way it should be. I am also going to take a look at the cluster, probably unplug it and go for a drive and see how it is. Thanks for the help guys, I will let you know how I make out.

  8. #8
    Senior Tuner IDRIVEAG8GT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raven3800t View Post
    I didn't get a chance to look at the car today, was tuning a 2010 camaro ss, but tomorrow I should be able to get a few hours on it.

    I only got the vin/os erro the first day when I originally flashed the file. I changed the vin's and have not had that error since. I can read and write to the computer just fine. If it is a 5V reference issue then I really should pin in the oil pressure sensor the way it should be. I am also going to take a look at the cluster, probably unplug it and go for a drive and see how it is. Thanks for the help guys, I will let you know how I make out.
    Awesomeness. And Yes Oil Pressure sending Unit is usually the culprit. Had that same issue with my Silvy...
    Gray Ghost- The abomination. 2007 Chevrolet Silverado CCSB. 98mm turbo, nitrous, 428LSX, Rossler 80E with a brake. Finally finished. 23 psi, no numbers, Slow as hell.

    PBM G8- Aluminum 364, twin Precision 67/66 turbos, 6L90 trans swap, CTS-V/Vaporworx fuel system, slowly making progress.

    Dads 2011 CTS-V- Stock bottom end, stock heads, LS9 cam, pullies, ported blower, ported TB, D3 goodies, and lots of nitrous.
    618/618 motor
    906/862 spray

    Caterpillar 50 Forklift- Duramax swap

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by raven3800t View Post
    I didn't get a chance to look at the car today, was tuning a 2010 camaro ss, but tomorrow I should be able to get a few hours on it.

    I only got the vin/os erro the first day when I originally flashed the file. I changed the vin's and have not had that error since. I can read and write to the computer just fine. If it is a 5V reference issue then I really should pin in the oil pressure sensor the way it should be. I am also going to take a look at the cluster, probably unplug it and go for a drive and see how it is. Thanks for the help guys, I will let you know how I make out.
    P0606 is usually raised when the internal throttle controller identifies a throttle position fault via pedal/throttle position mismatch. This may or may not raise a throttle related DTC. If you have an issue on one of the 5V busses it will normally raise a related DTC as well as limp mode.

    I say "usually" as fault conditions outside a factory stock car can get really odd. Like a C6 I fixed yesterday that was dead. Had a short on the class 2 serial bus. No DTC's. Just dead Vette.

    Throttle controller mismatch can occur when the originally flashed in GM tune is changed to a different tune. The different VIN is a pointer to that possibility. i.e. you got the tune in there via one VIN but HPT clearly identifies it as a mismatch.

  10. #10
    Senior Tuner IDRIVEAG8GT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSX378 View Post
    P0606 is usually raised when the internal throttle controller identifies a throttle position fault via pedal/throttle position mismatch. This may or may not raise a throttle related DTC.
    Would this be because the actual fuel pedal is telling the Throttle Blade to go past 100% at WOT? if it is, that could be corrected by scaling your tune. Although still I'm sticking to 5 Volts, because the OPSU can and will trip up to 9 different codes.
    Gray Ghost- The abomination. 2007 Chevrolet Silverado CCSB. 98mm turbo, nitrous, 428LSX, Rossler 80E with a brake. Finally finished. 23 psi, no numbers, Slow as hell.

    PBM G8- Aluminum 364, twin Precision 67/66 turbos, 6L90 trans swap, CTS-V/Vaporworx fuel system, slowly making progress.

    Dads 2011 CTS-V- Stock bottom end, stock heads, LS9 cam, pullies, ported blower, ported TB, D3 goodies, and lots of nitrous.
    618/618 motor
    906/862 spray

    Caterpillar 50 Forklift- Duramax swap

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by IDRIVEAG8GT View Post
    Would this be because the actual fuel pedal is telling the Throttle Blade to go past 100% at WOT? if it is, that could be corrected by scaling your tune. Although still I'm sticking to 5 Volts, because the OPSU can and will trip up to 9 different codes.
    Its due to the pedal/throttle tables in the engine segment not being matched to similar tables in the throttle controller in the ECM. They need to match from zero to 100%.

    OPSU?

  12. #12
    Senior Tuner IDRIVEAG8GT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by raven3800t View Post
    I didn't get a chance to look at the car today, was tuning a 2010 camaro ss, but tomorrow I should be able to get a few hours on it.

    I only got the vin/os erro the first day when I originally flashed the file. I changed the vin's and have not had that error since. I can read and write to the computer just fine. If it is a 5V reference issue then I really should pin in the oil pressure sensor the way it should be. I am also going to take a look at the cluster, probably unplug it and go for a drive and see how it is. Thanks for the help guys, I will let you know how I make out.
    Quote Originally Posted by LSX378 View Post
    Its due to the pedal/throttle tables in the engine segment not being matched to similar tables in the throttle controller in the ECM. They need to match from zero to 100%.

    OPSU?
    So his WOT values are off. Coolio? OPSU= Oil Pressure Sending Unit.
    Gray Ghost- The abomination. 2007 Chevrolet Silverado CCSB. 98mm turbo, nitrous, 428LSX, Rossler 80E with a brake. Finally finished. 23 psi, no numbers, Slow as hell.

    PBM G8- Aluminum 364, twin Precision 67/66 turbos, 6L90 trans swap, CTS-V/Vaporworx fuel system, slowly making progress.

    Dads 2011 CTS-V- Stock bottom end, stock heads, LS9 cam, pullies, ported blower, ported TB, D3 goodies, and lots of nitrous.
    618/618 motor
    906/862 spray

    Caterpillar 50 Forklift- Duramax swap

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by IDRIVEAG8GT View Post
    So his WOT values are off.
    Maybe. Its one cause. Also could be something else that has had the trouble code set to not reported too.

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    Wait, so if the table matches then what else could it be? Say that it's not WOT but everything leading up to it. Such as when you mash the gas there's a factor within Closed Loop that the car doesn't like. What are the causes that makes a vehicle go inti Limp Home Mode?
    Gray Ghost- The abomination. 2007 Chevrolet Silverado CCSB. 98mm turbo, nitrous, 428LSX, Rossler 80E with a brake. Finally finished. 23 psi, no numbers, Slow as hell.

    PBM G8- Aluminum 364, twin Precision 67/66 turbos, 6L90 trans swap, CTS-V/Vaporworx fuel system, slowly making progress.

    Dads 2011 CTS-V- Stock bottom end, stock heads, LS9 cam, pullies, ported blower, ported TB, D3 goodies, and lots of nitrous.
    618/618 motor
    906/862 spray

    Caterpillar 50 Forklift- Duramax swap

  15. #15
    Advanced Tuner ttz06vette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSX378 View Post
    Its due to the pedal/throttle tables in the engine segment not being matched to similar tables in the throttle controller in the ECM. They need to match from zero to 100%.

    OPSU?
    What's the fix for this?
    Reflash to stock tune and make changes again to this baseline?
    Disable p2101 diagnostic tests?
    New ECM?
    Any of the above?
    Last edited by ttz06vette; 10-24-2010 at 07:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ttz06vette View Post
    What's the fix for this?
    Reflash to stock tune and make changes again to this baseline?
    Disable p0121 diagnostic tests?
    New ECM?
    Any of the above?
    If its not known whether the throttle controller tables match the engine segment tables then getting a GM factory based reflash to stock tune is the safest option. Only GM's programming can put the right combination in the ECM.

    Disabling diagnostics will not help if a mismatch with the throttle controller is causing the problem.

    Limp mode or reduced power has plenty of causes (have seen an empty fuel tank cause limp mode occur on throttle ). These controllers are really good at keeping check on themselves. Only GM knows the entire package. GM manuals cover some aspects.

    When the pedal is mashed normally the ECM switches over to open loop. There are airflow checks, MAP checks, throttle position checks, speed & rpm checks, rpm rate checks. Lots of stuff.

    Some 2010 Camaros are showing to have a throttle limiter occur when the car is pushed & rpm's aggresively. Not limp though.

  17. #17
    Senior Tuner IDRIVEAG8GT's Avatar
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    I'm making a request for the tune to be posted. if it's got a 7.0L drop in, was everything changed over to be fly by wire, or is it still running on cables? If it's fly by wire is it an aftermarket throttle body?
    Gray Ghost- The abomination. 2007 Chevrolet Silverado CCSB. 98mm turbo, nitrous, 428LSX, Rossler 80E with a brake. Finally finished. 23 psi, no numbers, Slow as hell.

    PBM G8- Aluminum 364, twin Precision 67/66 turbos, 6L90 trans swap, CTS-V/Vaporworx fuel system, slowly making progress.

    Dads 2011 CTS-V- Stock bottom end, stock heads, LS9 cam, pullies, ported blower, ported TB, D3 goodies, and lots of nitrous.
    618/618 motor
    906/862 spray

    Caterpillar 50 Forklift- Duramax swap

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    Quote Originally Posted by raven3800t View Post

    I found out that in addition to the aftermarket "plug and play" engine harness they also installed an aftermarket ecu from the same company. I called up the company and was told that it was ordered over two years ago and that no one there would of locked the file. They did tell me to send the ecu back to them and they would then send me a stock ecm untouched for me to work with. I figured all I would have to do is disable the vats and be on my way. A week goes by and the new ecu shows up. I plug it in and sure enough I get the same error message, fails at the authentication process of the read. So of course with the VATS still enabled in this "stock" ecu the car does not fire. I call the company back and he basically has no clue, says that they don't lock the files but at the same time can't tell me what software they use to tune them in the first place. At this point I kind of think they outsource the ecu work and might not know the answers I need. I will leave the name of the company out as It doesn't help solve my problem.
    Which company? There is a conversion company out there that is very well known that does send their engine and trans modules out to get done and the company that does it has been known to accidentally lock the modules due to the software they use: not HPT or other well known competitor.


    Quote Originally Posted by IDRIVEAG8GT View Post
    I'm making a request for the tune to be posted. if it's got a 7.0L drop in, was everything changed over to be fly by wire, or is it still running on cables? If it's fly by wire is it an aftermarket throttle body?
    If its an 06 Vette ECM its definately fly by wire.

    A good question does relate to the throttle body: aluminum or gold colored throttle blade?

  19. #19
    Advanced Tuner ttz06vette's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSX378 View Post
    If its not known whether the throttle controller tables match the engine segment tables then getting a GM factory based reflash to stock tune is the safest option. Only GM's programming can put the right combination in the ECM.

    Disabling diagnostics will not help if a mismatch with the throttle controller is causing the problem.

    Limp mode or reduced power has plenty of causes (have seen an empty fuel tank cause limp mode occur on throttle ). These controllers are really good at keeping check on themselves. Only GM knows the entire package. GM manuals cover some aspects.

    When the pedal is mashed normally the ECM switches over to open loop. There are airflow checks, MAP checks, throttle position checks, speed & rpm checks, rpm rate checks. Lots of stuff.

    Some 2010 Camaros are showing to have a throttle limiter occur when the car is pushed & rpm's aggresively. Not limp though.
    I got the dreaded P0606 code the other day as well doing some spirited driving. The diagnostics are below. Wondering what the best course of action should is now...new module or keep trying with existing module.


    [ECM] P0606 - Control Module Internal Performance (SES) (History) (Immature)
    [ECM] P1516 - Throttle Actuator Control (TAC) Module Throttle Actuator Position Performance (SES) (History) (Immature)
    [ECM] P2101 - Throttle Actuator Control Motor Circuit Range/Performance (SES) (History) (Immature)
    [ECM] P2119 - Throttle Actuator Control Throttle Body Range/Performance (History) (Immature)
    [ECM] P0606 - Control Module Internal Performance
    [ECM] P1516 - Throttle Actuator Control (TAC) Module Throttle Actuator Position Performance
    [ECM] P2101 - Throttle Actuator Control Motor Circuit Range/Performance


    Continuous TestsJ
    Misfire: Complete
    Fuel System: Complete
    Comprehensive Component: Complete


    Once Per Trip Tests
    Catalyst: Incomplete
    Heated Catalyst: n/a
    Evaporative System: Incomplete
    Secondary Air System: n/a
    A/C System Refrigerant: n/a
    Oxygen Sensor: Incomplete
    Oxygen Sensor Heater: Incomplete
    EGR System: n/a
    Last edited by ttz06vette; 10-25-2010 at 04:50 PM.

  20. #20
    Senior Tuner IDRIVEAG8GT's Avatar
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    Ok for knowing about the Throttle Body I second that, for the twin turbo vette, that sounds like an issue purely by your TAC module and values need to be reset, I don't know for sure though. What is "Spirited" driving anyways?? Spirited Driving to me is doing 190+MPH runs on the Portales Highway in my G8.
    Gray Ghost- The abomination. 2007 Chevrolet Silverado CCSB. 98mm turbo, nitrous, 428LSX, Rossler 80E with a brake. Finally finished. 23 psi, no numbers, Slow as hell.

    PBM G8- Aluminum 364, twin Precision 67/66 turbos, 6L90 trans swap, CTS-V/Vaporworx fuel system, slowly making progress.

    Dads 2011 CTS-V- Stock bottom end, stock heads, LS9 cam, pullies, ported blower, ported TB, D3 goodies, and lots of nitrous.
    618/618 motor
    906/862 spray

    Caterpillar 50 Forklift- Duramax swap