Need a little help getting started

[Bill@HPTuners]

Ok, I found the MAF AFR Error, but when I load it, it just says, "This Histogram is not supported with the current loaded parameters."

Why me?

Its probably because you aren't logging maf in hz, commanded afr or wideband afr.

You need to log the necessary items to make a histogram work.

[Eat-Pez]

and how do I fix that?

[Bill@HPTuners]

By logging the necessary items in your table display.

[Eat-Pez]

You need to log the necessary items to make a histogram work.

and how do I fix that?

By logging the necessary items in your table display.

You're kidding, right? Please tell me you're kidding.

Bill, I've been polite as possible for the last 2.5 months and I really don't want to say anything to run off anyone who is trying to help. But every question I've asked, I get an answer like this -- either insults my intelligence by telling me something blatantly obvious, or gives me an answer way beyond my current comprehension of this program. Can you see how answers like this do nothing for the professionalism of your company?

I watched a video of someone named Greg from HPT at a car show. I believe you posted the video. Toward the end, he said something like, "we have an online forum and if you have a question, post it there and you'll get an answer in a short time." Please tell me this thread is an exception.

I don't want to have a discussion about learning and teaching theory, I don't want another person to come in here and tell me to figure it out for myself. All I want is to be able to ask a question, and get an answer fit for someone posted in the "Getting Started" section. I know there are plenty of forum members who don't want to deal with rookies, they stay out of this section, and I'm fine with that.

In all of the threads I've been apart of, I haven't said anything out-of-the-way to anyone, I haven't cursed at anyone, I haven't talked down to anyone. I've even posted a solution to someone having wiring harness issues, and that's a subject I can help with. On other forums where I'm a veteran, I've answered more noob questions than most could stand. And there's been atleast a dozen members make a thread/post to say, "my project is done and I would like to thank Pez for his IM, phone, or PM help." So, I'm not someone to leech off of a forum and I don't mind giving back. Now, I know my place as a noob and I'm not going to make demands, so I'm asking as nicely as I can.... Please, answer my question with a little more clarity.

[Bill@HPTuners]

You're kidding, right? Please tell me you're kidding.

Bill, I've been polite as possible for the last 2.5 months and I really don't want to say anything to run off anyone who is trying to help. But every question I've asked, I get an answer like this -- either insults my intelligence by telling me something blatantly obvious, or gives me an answer way beyond my current comprehension of this program. Can you see how answers like this do nothing for the professionalism of your company?

I watched a video of someone named Greg from HPT at a car show. I believe you posted the video. Toward the end, he said something like, "we have an online forum and if you have a question, post it there and you'll get an answer in a short time." Please tell me this thread is an exception.

I don't want to have a discussion about learning and teaching theory, I don't want another person to come in here and tell me to figure it out for myself. All I want is to be able to ask a question, and get an answer fit for someone posted in the "Getting Started" section. I know there are plenty of forum members who don't want to deal with rookies, they stay out of this section, and I'm fine with that.

In all of the threads I've been apart of, I haven't said anything out-of-the-way to anyone, I haven't cursed at anyone, I haven't talked down to anyone. I've even posted a solution to someone having wiring harness issues, and that's a subject I can help with. On other forums where I'm a veteran, I've answered more noob questions than most could stand. And there's been atleast a dozen members make a thread/post to say, "my project is done and I would like to thank Pez for his IM, phone, or PM help. So, I'm not someone to leech off of a forum and I don't mind giving back. Now, I know my place as a noob and I'm not going to make demands, so I'm asking as nicely as I can.... Please, answer my question with a little more clarity.

Open vcm scanner
Open your table(primary) display
right click on an open cell
Click insert
insert maf(hz)
insert commanded afr
insert your wideband pid in the analog input section(I assume you have a wideband)

The histogram should then work

[Eat-Pez]

Thank you. I believe I can follow those instructions. I'll give that a shot and get back with you.

[Frost]

I understand that and I'm not looking for step-by-step instructions for a specific application, I'm looking for a basic instruction manual that should have came with the software. Your development applications had that, didn't they? As I said, no, none do. you get an instuction/command list and some example code

All I'm looking for is basic steps to dial in a MAF. I've asked some specific questions in this thread that everyone seems to be avoiding. Hell, the only manual anyone has recommended to me costs as much as the program. Use or make a histo that logs AFR % error against MAF frequency. Use the % error against your MAF table



And I've built dozens of harnesses for engine swaps and never had anyone hold my hand. But I did have the donor and donee vehicle's factory service manuals. I worked my way through college as a professional guitar player and was 100% self taught, the only instruction I got was from a "1001 Chords" book my dad bought me when I was in high school and magazines I bought along the way. this takes time like learning guitar; you have to keep 'doing' until it takes



Ok, then where do I start. I know I could read this forum for years, but since I've got a veteran here, can you tell me a good place to start? I mean, I would like the opportunity not to spin my wheels on useless threads that you may have ran across. Any place I can look for helpful info written in a language I can understand? I'm sure there are things that I excel in that you would like to learn.... I would do the same for you if the tables were turned. every car is different; no one can tell you where to start because we don't know what your car needs. I start by getting idle established on cars which includes rough 'first guess at idle VE, getting idle airflow numbers, and idle timing set



Thanks man. Here are the cliffs:

00 LM7 using an LS1 intake and 04 LM7 MAF (5 wire)
1st gear it surges some and fuel economy is bad.
So far, I've copied the VE table from an 04 LM7 into my program and that helped the surging some
Last night, I lowered the whole VE table by about 7% and it seem to help the engine smoothness.... but that was just a shot in the dark. I really don't know what I did. if you have a MAF it has MUCH more influence on fueling than VE... copying another VE from a different OS isn't what I'd do. For VE tuning, put the car in OLSD and log AFR error against VE. Use the %-error to correct the VE table. Rince and repeat till close

I really do appreciate the any help you can give. I'm really not trying to be an jerk or anything, but I seem to have ran off Bill and EC Tune, the only other veterans who have posted in this thread. well you just got all in Bill's grill after he told you to add an item to the table in the scanner so that it gets logged. This is laid out in the instructions that are in the software plainly. Only parameters that are listed in the TABLE display are being logged. I understand your frustration but like your guitar, there really aren't shortcuts to this; it takes a lot of time to learn.

[Eat-Pez]

Use or make a histo that logs AFR % error against MAF frequency. Use the % error against your MAF table

Yes, I understand that, I understand how to do that, and after months of reading and attempting, someone finally told me what the problem was. It wasn't in OL, but in none of the instrunctions I've seen does it mention putting the car in OL, just like you didn't mention it above. This must me something that is easily overlooked.

this takes time like learning guitar; you have to keep 'doing' until it takes

I understand that too. The problem is that this forum was marketed as a substitute for a manual and I've got more people avioding my questions than answering them. The reason I'm here is to use it for what (I believe) it was ment for and since the forum is here, there's no reason for me to start guessing on where to start if there are hundreds of people who I could ask. If we want to keep using guitar as a metafor, it's just like a student beginning to play with poor technique/hand posture that could ultimately lead to Carpal tunnel. There's no reason for him continuing with that technique if he has people to give basic instruction, espeically when that technique can lead to perminate damage.

My point is, I would rather begin learning using proven methods instead of guessing my way through this and blowing up a few motors along the way.

if you have a MAF it has MUCH more influence on fueling than VE... copying another VE from a different OS isn't what I'd do.

See my previous point. Obviously, I'm not starting off with correct technique. Thanks for pointing this out to me as I might have done it again. Seriously.

For VE tuning, put the car in OLSD and log AFR error against VE. Use the %-error to correct the VE table. Rince and repeat till close

I know that, it's just that both the step-by-step instructions I've found are incomplete. I assumed that following the instructions would put the PCM in OL.

well you just got all in Bill's grill after he told you to add an item to the table in the scanner so that it gets logged.

No, I got a little frustrated because he told me "need to log the necessary items", and when I asked for a fix, he said, "By logging the necessary items". Back to guitar, if I walked up on a rookie and said, "your guitar sounds like shit, you need to tune it up", "how do I do that", "by tuning each string". A more approprate answer would be, "Your strings are tuned to E, A, D, G, B, & E (granted there are hundreds of alternate tunings, but that's the standard). Your best bet is to buy a elerctic tuner. I've got one here, let me show you how they work." After using the electic tuner for a month or three and keeping their instrument in tune, their ear would learn what each chord sounds like and would be able to tell when their guitar needs to be retuned. Go on a little farther, I can listen to a poor quality audio of someone struming on youtube and I can tell if they are out of tune and which string is out. Go on a little farther, I can pluck a string, with no reference to a correct pitch, and tell if it's flat or sharp. Hell, once a rookie called me up on my cell phone, played his guitar for me and I helped him tune it over the phone. Getting an ear that keen takes years. I'm not asking for anyone to give me all that in relation to this program, I just want to ask a few questions to get a solid foundation of fundamentals, and I'll be able to figure the rest out from there.

This is laid out in the instructions that are in the software plainly.

Sorry, I missed that. I just looked for it in the 'help' file and didn't find a defination of "primary table".

Only parameters that are listed in the TABLE display are being logged.

Well, thank you. I didn't realise that. After Bill's instrunctions, I kinda got that impression.

And, Bill, if it seemed that I was 'getting in your grill' early, I do want to apologize. I know it's hard to read someone's online attitude because tone of voice is not conveyed, but in the last post, I think 'implore' would be a better word than 'get in your grill'.

[Bill@HPTuners]

Sorry, I missed that. I just looked for it in the 'help' file and didn't find a defination of "primary table".

http://www.hptuners.com/help/vcm_sca...lays_table.htm

Table Display
The Table Display is the main control window for scan tool diagnostic parameters. What you chose to list in the table display window is what the program will poll the vehicle for. Any gauges, charts or histograms opened will require the parameter to be listed in the table display for functionality.

Well, thank you. I didn't realise that. After Bill's instrunctions, I kinda got that impression.

And, Bill, if it seemed that I was 'getting in your grill' early, I do want to apologize. I know it's hard to read someone's online attitude because tone of voice is not conveyed, but in the last post, I think 'implore' would be a better word than 'get in your grill'.

Thanks for the apology, understand that we are here to help but that some legwork must be done on your end. There is no right or wrong way to tune, there can be dozens of ways to get the same result, there really is no formula that any of us can give you other than our own experience, each of which may be completely different from the next guy.

With that said this sticky was made specifically for people new to tuning http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11178 and was based on my experience and the experiences of others before you so is as close to a formula as you will find when it comes to tuning IMO.

Im glad it appears you've found the information you've needed to get you pointed in the right direction.