if thats all you want to do, it is available, for less than the cost of that pass through unit.Our basic goal is to just be able to program our cars, ourselves.
if thats all you want to do, it is available, for less than the cost of that pass through unit.Our basic goal is to just be able to program our cars, ourselves.
1998 Ws6 TA
That's no fun and you don't learn anything. There is a lacking of EEC-V information avalible which is part of what this thread is about. I may end up having to get the SCT stuff because that is about the only option that I have at this time and the car is somehow getting more and more things done to itOriginally Posted by slow
. But I would also like to know how it works so it's the curiosity to learn that has me involved in this. What software are you talking about exactly?
-Michael Rudolph-
2003 Redfire Cobra
Eaton Poweredto a:
11.301 @ 129 1.68 60' MT DRs
11.85 @ 124 1.90 60' street tires
that is the only readily available software i know of with the full procesor support for all of the eec-v stuff.
1998 Ws6 TA
Ok, here are your answers-I have been writing code, among various other things for 13 years on the Fords, and here is what I know to be fact. Diablo predators are still making global changes with their device, and not very much positive results come from them. They use those particular numbers, as referenced to their parameters, but the programs for those vehicles do not actually use those breakpoints, and they are also not the same on each one-while there are POSSIBLE gains to be had from them, a good deal of the specs they tell you are inaccurate, and are used mainly for flash in advertising, as I call it. Since you guys are on this site, I figure you all to be against BS and for meat and potatoes types of things, in getting to the facts.
As for the subject of descrambling or deciphering their deal on the standard red chips or predators, they use some sort of european, cold war-type scramble process, and flipping addresses and such do not work there. Or, at least, to put it to you guys, in relative terms, it's craploads faster, and cheaper to start your own from scratch, than reverse engineer it. This from many years of experience in this realm -it ain't worth your time.
For practicality, cost, and being able to access things like someone like me does, you are only looking at a 700-800 dollar investment to tune your vehicle to the degree you are looking for-I'm not telling you this to sell you anything, but I'm telling you, because it's the most cost/time effective solution for you guys, unless you have an EXTREME amount of time to waste, and by the time you get anywhere, we will all have been into CAN for several years. As I said before, I do not profit from it, hate BxllShxt, and know you guys can prolly handle it, so if you need more details about it, let me know.
That's my 10 cents worth. Enjoy.
Jim
We don't want to hack into the preditor itself(which would be illegal). We just want to use it to sniff the OBDII port. I could spend the money to have someone else do it but that wouldn't be as much fun, plus I'm a cheap bastard.
Do you have any info on the read/write protocols of the EEPROM, or the actual code in the processor?
Thanks, Jfunk
Yes Twinturbo, can you help this thread out with some detail on the latest J3 service port (I use "latest" if J3 has changed compared to the old EEC-IV stuff)? I know back in the day, Tom Cloud published an article on the J3 multiplexing with read and write examples. But even his article was a little shady on the successive/sequential read clocks and the maximum amount of data that can be read in this manner. Could we get an accurate pinout of the J3 port? Have you had good luck interfacing to the J3 with your own memory and interface circuitry?
As with many of us, I would hope no one has intentions on disassembling someone or some company's work. Here are two good reasons to start from scratch:
-Accomplishment/Learning factor
-Legal permission to share the information to others
Yeah Screamin03, I agree on your "That's no fun" reply and the fact that the Predator is pretty lame. I had considered buying one a long time ago, glad I didn't.
This is gonna be awesome when we get this figured out!
I'm going with the J3 method of tuning my ECU. I'll help out those on the OBDII endeavor any way that I can.
When I open or download the file its just displays garbage like this:
<<02c6b56ac9bdfb4bae6d2987fb6fca5d>]>> startxref 0 %%EOF 7730 0 obj<>stream xÚb```b``ug`e``ÙÏÀÏ€ü ,@QŽ@ ‰ÝV²7…;dØ(Ö •çRt|Ç}EÔCBAG!“ a}S«ÓŽ * ¬Âs·¿e`Ø9sæÌ3AäÌ™ F.ðÔl6îeòM‹e²8#rf¹dS£Z*Åi¬y,açÌ åžƒ>§ƒ{:L¶*(yì0)˜-Õâ‚Ê °/¥´ŽÇÁÆ@%“"§ J@LÉ<–°d³æ F•ƒ3ýŒY™|NÎÐJÞFsÒ¸XfN…X)Å 2™-ìœ ÝÑó)&ƒÊb2X#%Q”K±*\±`‰ Æ Œé´(‹ƒEÔøX¤äO1>a`ÐsØϬà `Èj&ânÈìR&dãæð‰Ës±CƒÐH˜7 20ݺÁŽo; 6e`̹ɇ±â €y¨wð
2000 Ford Focus SE
Try adding a .pdf extension to it, that's most likely the problem and I should have done that in the first place. :-[
-Michael Rudolph-
2003 Redfire Cobra
Eaton Powered
11.301 @ 129 1.68 60' MT DRs
11.85 @ 124 1.90 60' street tires
Yeah, That fixed it.
2000 Ford Focus SE
I agree, it's kinda like cheatingAs with many of us, I would hope no one has intentions on disassembling someone or some company's work. Here are two good reasons to start from scratch:
-Accomplishment/Learning factor
-Legal permission to share the information to others
The reason I bought mine is because I was under the impression that Diablo would eventually release an ''end user'' version of the ''chipmaster revolution'' software.Yeah Screamin03, I agree on your "That's no fun" reply and the fact that the Predator is pretty lame. I had considered buying one a long time ago, glad I didn't.
http://www.modularfords.com/forums/s...d.php?p=158681
The Predator isn't that bad if all you want to do is load someone else's tune and the data logging seems pretty good but for someone like me that's use to HPT it sucks.
So you link it will be easier to program throught the J3?
-Michael Rudolph-
2003 Redfire Cobra
Eaton Powered
11.301 @ 129 1.68 60' MT DRs
11.85 @ 124 1.90 60' street tires
If Ford did not give you the addresses of the scalars and the tables it is 'hacking' . Is it legal or cheating? I cannot say.
People have justified their hacking by saying that they bought the car which came with code in the computer so the code is theirs to do what ever they want.
The car manufacturer has argued that they just 'loan' out the code to run the car while the car runs....yeah right.
Thru the OBD-II port you are faced with the Seed/Key which is no great problem to overcome as people such as SuperChips, Diablo, Hpertech etc have figured out and profited handsomely for their efforts
The J3 port is another way to get in. The ROM can be read out easily using the EEC Sucker or the Son of Sucker or the Grandson of Sucker or a Diablo programming station.
Flashing a 2 bank EEC-V via J3 is another matter as data sheets for the 32 pin PLCC flash chip are hard to come by.
Flashing a 4 bank EEC-V via J3 is another matter as I do not know where it is. It could be embedded in the processor that is used and getting in to it via J3 to reflash the flash memory in the processor is another hurdle.
I my opinion (and what the hell do I know?) it is pobably best to get in over at the OBD-II port now.
It should be useful for CAN as the best case senario is that they just took the least effort way out and just used the same code just encapsulated it in CAN protocol.
w.
Jfunk, wow, that PDF was good stuff. That sheds some light on the memory locations.
Uncleton, I'm as perplexed as you on the code rights of an ECU. I look at it like this: I can do anything with the ECU I own except make gobs of money off of disassembling it. I would imagine this is Ford's greatest concern.
Programming over OBDII does seem convenient, except for the SAE overhead. J3 seems to be my best route. I'm sure the J3 or OBDII programming method, kind of depends on the person.
Would you have any good specs on J3, both the connector pinout and/or the multiplexed read/write sequences? It would be nice to use the J3 as a "gateway" to program the factory memory, but for now, if I can just interface up to the CPU's memory bus and disable the on-board, I'll just add external memory and some interface circuitry.
Looks like with an A9L ECU and JFunk's PDF document, a person could get off to a good start programming Ford EECs.
That PDF I made and got it off this site:
http://how.to/calibrate
The format of the site sucks so that's why I made the document. Next to where it says ''tunemaster'' click on vehicle info and then scroll down to the ford stuff.
-Michael Rudolph-
2003 Redfire Cobra
Eaton Powered
11.301 @ 129 1.68 60' MT DRs
11.85 @ 124 1.90 60' street tires
Crap, Screamn03, I'm sorry, I got lost in the replies. Thanks for the PDF and I really can read if I try hard enough. haha.
Going on the search for some used EECs this weekend. Then I can hook up to the protocol analyzer this week and look at the J3 bus.
Ford's main concern is that people get into the code and make changes that result in broken transmissions for example and they 'have' to fix them under warranty. This happened a few years back costing them a lot of money. It has gotten so bad that if your car shows any evidence of use of chips or reflashing they immediately void your warranty if you have one.
The Tom Cloud's article, which I came across in 2000, is resonably accurate on the way the 8061/5 works and the signals on the J3 connector. Take the time to read it. He has loads of stuff there about the A9L.
There was another article by Andrew March but I cannot find it these days.
There was a bmp file of a EEC-IV schematic too that I found.
The Tweecer is another way to change the callibration.
Paul Booth may give away his A9L files along with his Windows program for the asking. To be able to 'swap' out the stock callibration and swap in yours, I think you can download to an EEC-Tuner. There are commercially available chip modules to take your tune you do not have to go and design one you will have to work on how to interface the software to your chip programmer, or get Paul to support it.
w.
Seed/Key Posts
A thread has been going on for awhile over at ISO.
w.
Here's some more AL9 stuff:
http://hometown.aol.com/tranzam777/AL9_LST.txt
I don't really know if this helps:
http://hometown.aol.com/tranzam777/i...Schematic.jpeg
Gotta love google ;D
-Michael Rudolph-
2003 Redfire Cobra
Eaton Powered
11.301 @ 129 1.68 60' MT DRs
11.85 @ 124 1.90 60' street tires
Do you have the rest of that List file? Or maybe some other ones?
2000 Ford Focus SE
This is where I got it from. There's others here also under "binaries / disassemblies" It looks like it may be Tom Clouds site.Do you have the rest of that List file? Or maybe some other ones?
http://www.austincc.edu/cloud/tc_eec.htm
-Michael Rudolph-
2003 Redfire Cobra
Eaton Powered
11.301 @ 129 1.68 60' MT DRs
11.85 @ 124 1.90 60' street tires
Craig Moates at www.moates.net is developing a J3 memory interface adaptor for EEC-Vs. Right now, he has what he calls an "F1" adaptor for EEC-IVs. It interfaces standard parallel memory to the J3 bus. But the new EEC-Vs must have an upgraded J3 bus, which differs and lacks support from the F1. A new memory interface from Craig Moates may be available in about a month for EEC-Vs.
Thanks for the info, Uncleton. Would you happen to know of any more information on the J3 bus? Perhaps it would be in a SAE paper?
Sent an email to Paul Booth regarding his BIN editor software. I will post as soon I as find out, in regards to it being free software for us tech nerds.
Developing a CPLD or hard CMOS interface circuit is really no big deal, if I can just get the new tech specs on J3. Ford has to be moving to a standard parallel memory bus. Seems like J3 started as a cheap and fast architecture to remain at the 8-bit micro level. I assume this is part of the reason why future EECs will no longer have a J3 port.
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