LSA going very rich, ignoring pe adjustents

[madmikeismad]

Car has intake only, and a street tune. During the maf and vve calibrations, the afr staying pretty much where I was expecting at 10.7:1 at wot(what it did bone stock). Now that I have the o2's and closed loop enabled, it will run 9.8:1 or so at wot even though commanded is leaner. I noticed it does it as soon as it goes into open loop, around 3500rpm. The STFT stops reporting and the commanded afr goes rich. I adjusted the pe table in that rpm range to redline from the stock 1.37 to 1.32, trying to lean it out a little, and it did nothing. Do I need to edit the open loop table to fix this? I'd like it somewhere 11.2-11.5:1. Log and Tune file attached. The very last wot run in the log is the easiest to see this in.

Thanks.

[R0G3R]

Have you calibrated your MAF and VE tables for the desired pe ratio?
COT is still enabled, could be what's causing to get richer at WOT

[madmikeismad]

Dang it I completely forgot about that. I'll disable once and see what it does. Thank you.

Also, why do you have to recal the maf/vve tables if you change the pe?

[5FDP]

What he is trying to tell you that the PE is a set and forget table.

You are making a request with the PE and you have to make the MAF/VVE match that request.

If the fueling is richer or leaner than the requested AFR/Lambda, fuel must be added or removed from the MAF/VVE to match that request.

Some aftermarket intakes will change the size of the tubing and if that happens you must re-calibrate the MAF/VVE because more/less air is being allowed into the engine.

Fixing this problem should give you your injector headroom back because you are well over 90% in the upper rpms.

[madmikeismad]

I thought you only adjusted the maf/vve if you changed airflow coming in (intake, manifold, pulleys, etc), which I've already done. Sorry, I thought I mentioned that.

So you're saying to leave the pe table alone, and just lean it out via the maf/vve tables? So why have the pe tables at all? Or am I still not understanding something?

All that aside, at this moment I'm just trying to figure out why it's hitting 9.8:1 when commanded is 10.4:1. I have to try again tomorrow with the cat over temp off, but I'm having doubts that it is the culprit since the max enrichment for it is 1.4/10.4:1

[5FDP]

You are making a request with the PE and you have to make the MAF/VVE match that request.

This is still what I am talking about. Power enrichment is a change in the commanded AFR. You have to make it hit this AFR.

So if you commanded 10.48 but the wideband shows 9.8 then you have too much fuel in that area on the MAF curve or the VVE. (Likely to be the MAF if you dynamic airflow settings are set to switch at 4,000rpm).


This is why you have the scanner to data all this. If you logged the wideband error against the commanded AFR you'd see that you have a large error in what you command vs what you get on the wideband. You'd also be logging at what part of the MAF hz range/ MAF airflow vs freq table you are at to tell you where you remove fuel from. So if above 8,500hz you are rich, you'd remove a couple percent worth of fuel or whatever the AFR error is saying and flash that in. Do another log and see if the actual AFR went from 9.8 up to 10.2 or 10.3. Slowly work at to match the commanded 10.4 or whatever you are picking.

On a car like this you should be able to commaned 11.0 to 11.4 no problem on 93 octane.

[madmikeismad]

ohhhhhhh, I gotcha. I was completely misunderstanding you lol. I do have dynamic set to maf after 4k iirc. So when I did the maf cal, I got every cell within 1-2% of zero in the scanner. I guess I'll have to do it again.

93 is rare in oklahoma unfortunately. 91 it is until I get a flex sensor.

PS:
I leave the maf error histogram running all the time. I just went back and looked, and at 9300hz and a couple others, where the super rich points are happening, it's showing I'm -2%. Would that really be enough to richen.5 afr? Rough math in my head tells me no. Either way, I'm going to lean those out 2% and see where it gets me after the cat over temp.

PSS:
Not as important right now, but I'm still trying to figure out why my commanded afr's won't change when I edit the pe table. I hate that I can't find any target afr tables. I really don't want 10.48:1/.714. When I was doing the map calibrations, I noticed it was hitting 11.2:1 at WOT, and holding it just fine. Is that because I was in open loop with cat OT turned off and not getting into PE?

[madmikeismad]

Regarding the commanded afr not changing to what I want, I've noticed it actually is, but around 5k rpm, it changes towards richer, and commands richer again around 5800rpm. It does this every single log, and I just never noticed because of how I had it scaled. Stupid on my part. So I'm making progress I think, I just don't know where to start looking for what is influencing the commanded afr.

[5FDP]

I looked at the tune, COT is exactly why it's going to 10.48. That is what 1.40 gets you. 14.68/1.40 = 10.48.

Your PE is set to target 11.55 AFR with 1.270 in there.

[madmikeismad]

Thank you! And the short dips below 10:1 actual afr are probably the 2% error in my maf table at the 9300hz area, mixed with the COT coming on and making it unstable for a split second.
I'll bet turning off COT is why the map/maf cal logs were holding a more stable afr too.

I had just made the change to 1.270 before I saved it to upload here. Haven't actually ran it yet.

Learning what I have about this car in the last few days, I'm amazed they didn't run bigger injectors. They're peaking over 100% with just the intake. I never got a log with it bone stock, but I imagine they were over 90% Next step will be getting these new injectors in and setup, so I'm sure I'll have more questions.

[5FDP]

They only need them to be so big when it's a factory thing. Running 11.5 should drop the duty cycle way down compared to 10.0.

If you add more power, new injectors for sure.

[madmikeismad]

That's a fair point. But damn they really left no room for error lol.

I went with some ID1050x's. Going for a max effort stock blower, and these should carry me all the way through.

Thanks again for all the help so far, this is a bunch of firsts for me. First blower car, first time with hp tuners, first gas car I've tuned in almost a decade. I'm really trying to take this slow and step by step.

[madmikeismad]

So COT fixed every single problem I was having and brought IDC down about 20% while picking up a noticeable bit of response.

Thank again!