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Thread: SD tuning for E38/E67 ECM's

  1. #21
    Tuner carneb's Avatar
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    I've found an Excel add-in called XLFit. I've changes the spreadsheet to include this and to tidy it up. You can copy the coefficients from HPTuners and paste onto the "Original Coeff" sheet. This will graph the VE table and show the table on the "Original VE" page. After logging the car you can then copy and paste the AFR % error from HPTuners into the "AFR % error" sheet, assuming the row and column titles are the same. The AFR % error data will adjust the VE table. The adjusted table is shown on the "New VE" sheet and the new coefficients and graph on the "New Coeff" sheet. You can then copy and paste the new coefficients back into HPTuners and then go and do some more logging.

    The problem is that you can only use XLFit for 30 days before having to pay and it's not cheap. If you want to have a look it is here http://www.idbs.com/Decision/XLfit/ . Unfortunately the spreadsheet won't work properly without installing XLFit.

    If you are going to play with the spreadsheet please note that it has not been tested in real world conditions so make sure the figures look sensible before using them.

    Here is the Spreadsheet. http://users.bigpond.net.au/bcar4179/e38_e67 sd ve tuning afr.xls It is now around 1 MB
    Last edited by carneb; 10-22-2006 at 04:54 AM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by SRPerformance
    Just a thought, could we regenerate all the SD values so that the constants where relational to each other, this way we could edit only the constants and apply percentages for AFR.
    sure you can but you have a very low resolution VE table (30 cells).
    I count sheep in hex...

  3. #23
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    Question VCM Scanner 2.1.14

    Chris, does the VCM scanner 2.1.14 have a high resolution VE table ie derived from the formula? Rgds, Joe
    LS1 LS2 LS7 tuner, L98, LT1 & Haltec

  4. #24
    there is no single VE table, hence no histogram can be created.
    I count sheep in hex...

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris@HPTuners
    there is no single VE table, hence no histogram can be created.
    So is there a way to tune the AFR error yet?
    Last edited by SRPerformance; 10-26-2006 at 08:45 PM.
    LS1 LS2 LS7 tuner, L98, LT1 & Haltec

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by SRPerformance
    So is there a way to tune the AFR error yet?
    the AFR % error can be measured, sure. However, equating that % error to the relevant changes in the SD coefficients is the trick. Its not a simple go to the VE table and add or subtract the error % like the past.

    Obviously you would log the error % vs. MAP and RPM so you can work out which zone you are in, but the key is to know the current shape of your VE table (as per some of the spreadsheets posted here) *THEN* create a new corrected VE table that is modified to offset the AFR % error by the correct amount. In the past this was a simple add/subtract (or multiply by % in the editor) because the AFR % erro histo and the VE table were in the same form. In the new world they are not even close.

    What you need to do is this:

    1. plot your existing VE table using one of the spreadsheets the guys have posted (for those who have variable camshafts you are SOL on getting a visual representation of it becuase it is 5-dimensional)

    2. measure the AFR % error as usual vs. MAP and RPM (again variable camshaft engines cannot plot a 5d histo)

    3. correct your raw VE table data in the right places in the spreadsheet (same multiply by % method)

    4. *the difficult part* using a math program such as Matlab or crazy amounts of trial and error solve the VE table raw data into the coefficients. ie. this is a solving matrices problem - hence Matlab or equivalent. This amounts to solving each of the 30 simulataneous equations for the 14 coefficents.

    eg. Ax² + By² + Cxy + Dx + Ey + Fxy + G = VE

    You know what VE needs to be (the AFR % error tells you this) and you know x and y (MAP & RPM) so solve for A,B,C,D,E,F,G and repeat 30 times, simultaneously. Scary huh. You really do have to recalculate *ALL* the coefficents, although some may not change much, it is critical that crossing zone boundaries is continuous.

    5. plug the new coefficients into all the tables and repeat

    Step 4 is the hard part, non-intuitive and best left to Matlab et al. to find the answer
    Last edited by Chris@HPTuners; 10-27-2006 at 08:47 AM.
    I count sheep in hex...

  7. #27
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    Or create a function call accessing a 4-dim database table and solve that way. Access supports VB script. Unfortunately EXCEL doesnt cut it anymore for tuning VE. Perhaps if someone were to solve using a simple database application there could be consideration given to deploying it along with HPT as part of a solutions pack, also including other common calcuator functions like

    derived HP from trap speed
    graphing gears by diff ratio (I already have a spreadsheet)
    IFR re-scaling
    etc...

    Basically, an equation solver add-on.

  8. #28
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    Not sure if this applies, but do the 05 GTO's have the same kind of VE tables??? Is that an E40 PCM? I've looked at that table and it looks different than the 04 GTO VE table.
    2005 Pontiac GTO LS2

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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by MNR-0
    Or create a function call accessing a 4-dim database table and solve that way. Access supports VB script. Unfortunately EXCEL doesnt cut it anymore for tuning VE. Perhaps if someone were to solve using a simple database application there could be consideration given to deploying it along with HPT as part of a solutions pack, also including other common calcuator functions like

    derived HP from trap speed
    graphing gears by diff ratio (I already have a spreadsheet)
    IFR re-scaling
    etc...

    Basically, an equation solver add-on.
    there is a reason Matlab costs around $2k for a license, this is not just automating a few calculator keypresses unfortunately...
    I count sheep in hex...

  10. #30
    Tuner in Training
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    The read I get from this thread is basically, due to the fact that I do not have a doctorate in mathematics, the HP Tuner Suite I just bought to tune my 07 LS2 is not going to do me much good. I thought I was overwelmed with learning the software, but this new rinkle is just rediculous. Is there any hope???

  11. #31
    Senior Tuner Russ K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 07C6
    The read I get from this thread is basically, due to the fact that I do not have a doctorate in mathematics, the HP Tuner Suite I just bought to tune my 07 LS2 is not going to do me much good. I thought I was overwelmed with learning the software, but this new rinkle is just rediculous. Is there any hope???
    Just tuned a 2007 Escalade last week. I tuned the AFR by rescaling the MAF tables and by setting the commanded AFR (EQ Ratio vs. RPM), just like every other MAF tune that I've done. There is no need for any SD tuning. On a car with a camshaft over 228*@.050, I disable and or remove the MAF and tune in SD.

    I also had to set up a custom config file to get the scanner to work, as these pcms don't have a commanded afr pid and the commanded eq ratio pid is inverted. Use this config file and just insert your brand of wideband in place of the FJO Racing wideband that I use.

    Russ Kemp

  12. #32
    I uploaded a stock 07' C6 file. I was successful in tuning PE using the PE table, but everything else is very new.

    It was interesting to see the stock PE curve.. It seems to go from

    13.0 from 0 - 1500 rpm
    12.7 at 1500
    then gradually up to 13.0 by 3000 rpm
    then all the way down to 11.8 at 5000 rpm
    then finally 12.16 from 5500+


    You will need a 2.1.15 beta or higher to view the new OS file.

  13. #33
    How does the pcm decide the intervals between map and rpm points. Like is it 5 rpm or 10 rpm or 50rpm and like 10kpa, 5kpa, etc?

  14. #34
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    If the kxxx is the same value for a given zone and the variable in a given situation are VE, MAP and RPM, then you can use regression analysis to determine the value of the constant k. This method will generate the best value of the constant that comes closest to generating the desires VE value given the exact MAP and RPM inputs.

  15. #35
    Супер Модератор EC_Tune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djt81185
    How does the pcm decide the intervals between map and rpm points. Like is it 5 rpm or 10 rpm or 50rpm and like 10kpa, 5kpa, etc?
    It interpolates everything so the VE table generated by the spreadsheets is "artificial" but a decent representation.
    Always Support Our Troops!

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Russ K
    Just tuned a 2007 Escalade last week. I tuned the AFR by rescaling the MAF tables and by setting the commanded AFR (EQ Ratio vs. RPM), just like every other MAF tune that I've done. There is no need for any SD tuning. On a car with a camshaft over 228*@.050, I disable and or remove the MAF and tune in SD.

    I also had to set up a custom config file to get the scanner to work, as these pcms don't have a commanded afr pid and the commanded eq ratio pid is inverted. Use this config file and just insert your brand of wideband in place of the FJO Racing wideband that I use.

    Russ Kemp
    russ...isn't this one of the variable motors?

  17. #37
    Senior Tuner Russ K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BMBSALES
    russ...isn't this one of the variable motors?
    No, the Escalade is not eqipped with Displacement On Demand and the DOD is set to Disable as stock.

    Russ Kemp

  18. #38
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    Chris and guys,

    I,m greatful that you guys are out there and can do this sh--, my 60 year old brain, longhand linear algebra and sliderule just won't cut it these days.

    You crunch the #s and I'll continue purchasing and using your products with the knowledge that it is more than a leap of faith to do so.

    Keep up the good work!
    Warp 10 Always

  19. #39
    Супер Модератор EC_Tune's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russ K
    No, the Escalade is not eqipped with Displacement On Demand and the DOD is set to Disable as stock.

    Russ Kemp
    Russ,
    Escalade & GMC Denali 6.2 have variable cam timing which is what I think he was referring to.

    EC
    Always Support Our Troops!

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by brianw21
    I uploaded a stock 07' C6 file. I was successful in tuning PE using the PE table, but everything else is very new.

    It was interesting to see the stock PE curve.. It seems to go from

    13.0 from 0 - 1500 rpm
    12.7 at 1500
    then gradually up to 13.0 by 3000 rpm
    then all the way down to 11.8 at 5000 rpm
    then finally 12.16 from 5500+


    You will need a 2.1.15 beta or higher to view the new OS file.
    lol, a perfect example of tuning the fuel using the PE table...
    I count sheep in hex...