My take on 11-17 Mustang GT return style fuel systems

[Bill@HPTuners]

So over the past year or so I've just hung tight with a VMP BAP and my ID1050x injectors but finally broke down on a full fuel system, had a local shop to me piece together a kit for me and wanted to just share my experience and maybe help anyone thinking about going to a return style system with choosing the right parts. For a little background I have a procharged 2014 Mustang GT, full exhaust, auto(stock converter) & boss IM, made 578 pre boss IM so I'd hope I'm right around 600rwhp now.

The kit that was pieced together for me
on3 fuel hat
(2)AEM 50-1200 pumps
finishline factory nylon braided hose
finishline factory fittings
Finishline factory fuel filter
Aeromotive A1000 regulator
Radium Coyote fuel rails

The Good:
I'm happy with the performance of the AEM pumps, they seem to be doing very well
I'm happy with the performance of the A1000 regulator, it seems to be doing its job very well

The Bad:
The finishline factory nylon braided hose while it might last a little longer than pushlock hose it is permeable meaning if you store your mustang in your 20x20 garage your garage will stink of gas after a short amount of time, if I were to do it again I would definitely have gone with some redhorse pushlock, I should've listened to my friend on this up front but hindsight is 20/20. Like many of you I like working on my car and I will surely be going to pushlock hose whenever this hose fails. I've been told PTFE is a bitch to work with and while its not permeable I would take ease of install/replacement over the hassle.

The on3 hat comes with 10AN elbows at the hat and I'm only running 8AN feed so we had to run a reducer AN fitting off the hat, this had a leak, we believe the leak is due to the on3 fittings as the adapter fitting we originally used was new and appeared fine, I ordered a new adapter fitting from a local company which happened to have an o ring and this fixed the leak.

The finishline factory fuel filter is one of those dinky little ones "modeled after the earls ones" and I was getting major fuel pressure drop at wot(23psi) immediately after install.


The downright ugly

So let me start off by saying I had nothing but issues with the on3 hat as it does not come sealed at the wiring I had to deal with having it sealed using JBweld wait 24hrs for it to cure and we finally got it sealed and, well, fuel decided the next weakest link were the 3 o rings in the hat, so we had to remove the hat, break through the JB weld, take apart the hat completely, replace the failed o rings(from the factory as this was a brand new unit), put it all back together, reJBweld it wait 24hrs, install it, only to find it started leaking again at the wiring so remove again, reJBweld, wait another 24hrs, install & test again...seeing a pattern yet? So for starters I would run from the on3 hat. In addition to the on3 hat there are several other hats on the market that I believe use the EXACT SAME DESIGN! so I would stay away from them as well because of this. Additionally any fuel pump you mount in this hat has to use a short piece of regular fuel line which will break down especially when exposed to E85, I believe this is just a poorly designed hat. Personally if I could do it over again I would've definitely gone with a kit that utilizes a fore 2 or 3 pump hat.


Now with that said the Radium Coyote rails were a bit of a wildcard and I have no idea why these were chosen by my shop, it was obvious they had never used them before the problem with them is the have 6 ports on them but provide you with no hardware for them. So on a return style system you'll typically have an inlet, crossover & outlet, pretty straight forward, but with these 2 of the 6 ports need to be plugged but they don't provide the plugs so during the install this was discovered and plugs had to be purchased on the fly so to speak, yes this does speak to the incompetence of the shop that purchased & installed these mismatched parts and to some extent on me for not being more informed or taken the lead on all purchasing aspects.

In the end I did replace the finishline factory fuel filter with a DW 110 fuel filter from xtreme motorsports out in AZ and it is working great. Along the way I've purchased a bunch of AN fittings from anhosefittings.com and they have all worked great.

Now in regards to tuning, I have both pumps running full time and initially started tuning while being non boost referenced, basically just set base pressure, set the inferred tables to 58psi across the board, set the secondary fuel pump monitor to disabled and tune away ie maf table pretty straight forward. I've since switched to boost referenced and have just started tuning it like this, not really much of a difference at part throttle thus far, with the same base pressure under part throttle rail pressure is typically at 56-58psi like this anyway. Only under decel will fuel pressure dip to 50-56psi.

I would definitely recommend installing an electronic fuel gauge in order to monitor your fuel pressure once in a while(you can usually tell when your fuel filter needs to be cleaned by monitoring your fuel pressure, particularly at wot).

There are many kits on the market including the uber expensive fore kits where they nickle and dime you for parts and yes their fuel hats are awesome but I wasn't spending $3k on a kit. There are also kits like the ones Jn2 sells that include a fore hat and If I were to do it again I'd probably go this route, they are about $1600-1900 but definitely are a big step up from the budget deadhead kits and not really that much more $ in the grand scheme of things.

Well, thats my take, hopefully this helps someone else that's on the fence and just doesn't know which way to go.

[MRRPMBRP]

This is why I still have stock pumps, lines, and non return style setup.
950rwhp, and still not done, so no need in all this really.
Stock is lighter, less complex, and programmable w HPTuners, return style runs full blast all the time, heating fuel, and is heavier, plus all the cons above.

[Witt]

I've had decent luck with the kit JPC Racing sells. PTFE for no smell, Fore hat, but still on the stock rails.

They aren't without problems though. The relays they include are junk. Had them both burn up on me during Hot Rod Drag Week 2017. The pumps rated current draw stalled doesn't even come close to the rating of the included relays but they completely melted down. Replaced them with known good ones and no issues there since.

The kit also doesn't include a check valve. A generic Jegs/Summit one works fine.

Tuning is simple, just change the inferred fuel rail pressure. No more guessing pressure vs flow.

[Bill@HPTuners]

I've had decent luck with the kit JPC Racing sells. PTFE for no smell, Fore hat, but still on the stock rails.

They aren't without problems though. The relays they include are junk. Had them both burn up on me during Hot Rod Drag Week 2017. The pumps rated current draw stalled doesn't even come close to the rating of the included relays but they completely melted down. Replaced them with known good ones and no issues there since.

The kit also doesn't include a check valve. A generic Jegs/Summit one works fine.

Tuning is simple, just change the inferred fuel rail pressure. No more guessing pressure vs flow.

The JPC kit comes with, what I believe, is the EXACT same hat design as the on3. I'd be curious how they seal the wiring coming out of it as obviously that was my major issue.

Not having a check valve in my system hasn't shown to be a big issue to be perfectly honest.

[Witt]

Mine is definitely a Fore and they still list including a Fore hat on their site. Wiring is sealed with some type of hard fuel resistant RTV like substance.

The long crank times annoyed me.

[Bill@HPTuners]

Mine is definitely a Fore and they still list including a Fore hat on their site. Wiring is sealed with some type of hard fuel resistant RTV like substance.

The long crank times annoyed me.

ahh ok, they show a CPE hat on their website

https://www.speednik.com/wp-content/.../03/2011-1.jpg

[Witt]

Their website is all over the place. The kit I bought years ago says the filter is AEM, the picture shows Magnafuel, but its actually a Fore.

[Stangguy]

I've worked with almost all the fuel systems. All of them have there quarks. The on3 stuff works too. You have to use the right sealer, as you said they don't supply it, and you have to retorque every last bolt and fitting on there hats. None of them are tight like they are suppose too. Walbro pump kits usually come with submersible fuel line. A few fuel rails come bare. It's mostly annoying, but we keep a large inventory of XRP fittings on the shelf which makes most of this stuff not a problem.

[Bill@HPTuners]

I've worked with almost all the fuel systems. All of them have there quarks. The on3 stuff works too. You have to use the right sealer, as you said they don't supply it, and you have to retorque every last bolt and fitting on there hats. None of them are tight like they are suppose too. Walbro pump kits usually come with submersible fuel line. A few fuel rails come bare. It's mostly annoying, but we keep a large inventory of XRP fittings on the shelf which makes most of this stuff not a problem.

Yeah I agree, the machine screws on my on3 hat were not tight, well 4 out of 5 that is. Of course the day after I post this fuel started leaking AGAIN from the machine screws so I believe the o ring fix in the hat didn't take. I've only had about 2 hours of drive time on this car in the last 3 weeks. Been probably the worst vendor/shop experience I've ever had in my life. Since its leaking again I'll be purchasing a fore hat and just move on. For reference fore hats don't use any fuel line to connect the pumps, they directly fit into the hat via o ring.

[Sleek98]

If you end up talking to a fore dealer its much cheaper to buy than they list on their site. I picked up my dual 465 pump kit with the regulator after the rails for 1800 shipped with rails. The PTFE wasnt that bad to work with, just have to make sure to get the brass fitting seated on the line before putting the hose end on.

[Stangguy]

Ya they use a compression fitting. it's interesting done a few of them. Have there triple system we just put in a C6 vette for 1800hp. It's a nice system, just pricey and harder sell. I use a little bit of sealer on the on3 screws on the top. Never had an issue after that.

[Bill@HPTuners]

Ya they use a compression fitting. it's interesting done a few of them. Have there triple system we just put in a C6 vette for 1800hp. It's a nice system, just pricey and harder sell. I use a little bit of sealer on the on3 screws on the top. Never had an issue after that.

According to the guys at on3 no fuel should be even getting to those machine screws "I?ve never seen them leak from there so that would be a first for sure." is what I was told verbatim. Maybe the leak is so small people just aren't noticing but I surely can't be the only one.

[Ptman22]

my dislike between these fuel systems is there is no bucket, so you are then encouraged not to do WOT pulls with less than half a tank of fuel, is this correct?

[auto02]

This is why I still have stock pumps, lines, and non return style setup.
950rwhp, and still not done, so no need in all this really.
Stock is lighter, less complex, and programmable w HPTuners, return style runs full blast all the time, heating fuel, and is heavier, plus all the cons above.

What's your set up?

[veeefour]

This is why I still have stock pumps, lines, and non return style setup.
950rwhp, and still not done, so no need in all this really.
Stock is lighter, less complex, and programmable w HPTuners, return style runs full blast all the time, heating fuel, and is heavier, plus all the cons above.

With booster?

[MRRPMBRP]

With booster?

Yes, with KB race BAP, stock GT500 pumps, lines, & fuel rails.
When I run out of pump, I will replace the pumps with Walbro 450's, & see what happens.
Cheap & easy.

[bbrooks98]

I initially bought the on3 hat. After taking it apart and not being very happy with the quality, the rubber line to the pump, and the way the wires go I ended up selling it and just going with a GT500 pump setup that i modified with two -6 outlets. I'm running a boost a pump with the Gt500 pumps and a -8an feed with a -6 return. Hopefully that'll get me to 1000whp.

Fuel hat.jpg

[veeefour]

Yes, with KB race BAP, stock GT500 pumps, lines, & fuel rails.
When I run out of pump, I will replace the pumps with Walbro 450's, & see what happens.
Cheap & easy.

Nice!

We have twin turbo project in progress and I was wondering how much the stock fuel system can support.

[Jn2]

Now with that said the Radium Coyote rails were a bit of a wildcard and I have no idea why these were chosen by my shop...

I ordered radium rails once for a GT500 fuel system, they caught me off guard too, they have like 2 extra ORB ports, top and bottom on each rail that you need to plug yourself.

my dislike between these fuel systems is there is no bucket, so you are then encouraged not to do WOT pulls with less than half a tank of fuel, is this correct?

The reason they are bucket-less is because you would need a big bucket to hold 3 pumps, those 3 pumps will prob suck the bucket dry, and your assembly still needs to be able to fit through the hole in the tank. Radium is the only one making a fuel pump assembly that has a bucket, how ever you can only get it with 2 pump, not 3. I offer that bucket as a free replacement to the FORE one if someone only wants to make 1200whp or less and also wants a bucket. For triple pumps though, no one makes one with a bucket.

I initially bought the on3 hat. After taking it apart and not being very happy with the quality, the rubber line to the pump, and the way the wires go I ended up selling it and just going with a GT500 pump setup that i modified with two -6 outlets. I'm running a boost a pump with the Gt500 pumps and a -8an feed with a -6 return. Hopefully that'll get me to 1000whp.

Nice! I did this but with dual DW400 pumps, put both pumps in the hat, 2 bulkhead fittings with PTFE washers, ran those 2 outlets out of the hat and to a 6AN to 8AN Y block, feed that into the engine bay where we split it using a 8/8/8 Y block to feed both rails. The set up def works, and lets you keep the OE bucket and venturi function. Only down side is the additional labor in putting it together.

[Stangguy]

According to the guys at on3 no fuel should be even getting to those machine screws "I?ve never seen them leak from there so that would be a first for sure." is what I was told verbatim. Maybe the leak is so small people just aren't noticing but I surely can't be the only one.

They always say that. I used a little Ethanol safe sealer and no issues. It's definitely not a plug and play system like some of the other kits. That's why it's so much cheaper. I'm putting a kit in a 2v right now. If you look at them and figured what can be an issue and take care of it before install you shouldn't have any issues. I'm running there system with 3 pumps with fittings, lines, and rails for over a year on e85 and no issues.