Injection timing p01

[anniversaryss]

When all is said and done and you know the value you want to change how do you apply it to your injection timing table?
The 0411 p01 has two spots
Normal
Makeup
Both are reference periods vs ECT.

Which table do you apply your values to?
Normal? Makeup? Both?
Also a little help trying to figure out how to get that value.

Thanks
Bobby

[anniversaryss]

Bueller......

[scoob8000]

Bump

[KFXGUY]

Try adding and subtracting in the normal table. See what difference you notice. It will smell less and idle better when your going the right way.

[Dan_W]

Whats the value you want?

[anniversaryss]

Say what now?

[Dan_W]

Read these:
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...OI-fuel-timing

https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...ng-what/page27

[kingtal0n]

even after you read (let me save you hours) the consensus is still that nobody truly knows yet for gen3. maybe some will "advance" (change) 5.55 to 6.0 or 6.12 etc but nobody has posted with compression oscilloscopy data combined with whatever matches injector on/off logging to the pressure of compression. Somebody proposed an idea, they will crank the engine and scope both compression over time and injector actual activation point and get within some % confirming closeness and then by moving injector tables find out how actual injector open/close times related to the compression stroke while cranking the engine over, extrapolate the data to get the full 360*... pressure analyzer is like $3000 or I could do it right this second, I asked a while back:

-----Original Message-----
From: <[email protected]>
To: Kingtal0n <[email protected]>
Sent: Sat, Mar 28, 2015 3:10 pm
Subject: Re: TFX Engine Technology Inc. - Price inquiry

Hi,

You have a bit of a unique situation. A complete system consists of 3 main components:

TFX Analyzer + Pressure Sensor(s) + Crank Sensor (or MVCSA adapter).



Lets assume as a start that you wish to go with an instrumented spark plug instead of a head mounted sensor, and that your engine already has a crank sensor, then the least expensive solution would be:


TFX 1 Analyzer ($3395)
1 pressure channel, 1 crank sensor channel, live data display capability, includes all software and updates.

Instrumented Spark Plug ($1495 each)
Suitable for NA to 40 psi boost. M14 thread, 19 mm reach, gasket seat (other dimensions available).

MVCSA (Multi Vehicle Crank Sensor Adapter) ($425)
Allows the analyzer to connect to the engine's existing crank trigger signal. Works for low voltage and high voltage crank triggers. Suitable for a wide range of trigger patterns i.e. 60-2, 36-6, 36-1, 24-2, 24-1 etc., and if you encounter a particular engine which has a trigger pattern that is not already in our library, we will generate the necessary code to add it to our library. No charge.

The total would then be $5315 + shipping.


If you feel that you would not need the equipment beyond your thesis we would then purchase the equipment back from you for $2500 assuming you keep the equipment in working order and are finished your thesis within 1 year of the purchase. That would make the overall total $2815 + shipping.

If this is something you would like to pursue let us know the contact details, university details, and the engine details, then we will prepare and official quotation for you.


Thanks,

TFX Engine Technology Inc.
www.tfxengine.com

yeah, sorry that is around ten reliable V8 engines trade value
I love to be able to say that but its almost more than my car

[anniversaryss]

Lol i gave up on this a few weeks ago

[85K5Jake]

Anniversaryss you are looking for the EIOT spreadsheet. Its floating around on this forum just search Eiot, End Of Injection Timing. You need to know you valve events or duration and lift of your cam to calculate the new timing. The value you get goes into both makeup and boundary tables. I did my boundary table based off of the percentage increase, say you got a 17% increase multiply that table by 1.17. The spreadsheet works like a champ. Definitely cleaner at idle and better butt dyno feel when I used it. Don't listen to king talon that explanation is crap.

[kingtal0n]

Anniversaryss you are looking for the EIOT spreadsheet. Its floating around on this forum just search Eiot, End Of Injection Timing. You need to know you valve events or duration and lift of your cam to calculate the new timing. The value you get goes into both makeup and boundary tables. I did my boundary table based off of the percentage increase, say you got a 17% increase multiply that table by 1.17. The spreadsheet works like a champ. Definitely cleaner at idle and better butt dyno feel when I used it. Don't listen to king talon that explanation is crap.

Oh yeah forgot to mention theres a magic file floating around. Thanks for pointing that out maybe someone will elaborate. I never tried it because I didn't cam the engine yet.

[85K5Jake]

Oh yeah forgot to mention theres a magic file floating around. Thanks for pointing that out maybe someone will elaborate. I never tried it because I didn't cam the engine yet.

That search button will take you a long way king talon you should use it. Maybe for that voltage problem your having. I've seen some of your threads you are real peach if you know what I mean.

[kingtal0n]

That search button will take you a long way king talon you should use it. Maybe for that voltage problem your having. I've seen some of your threads you are real peach if you know what I mean.

All I've done is repeat what was said in the other thread

You would increase the numbers to increase the injector delay. Makeup refers to some pulses that are used only in certain transient situations, so don't worry about that too much. I'm not sure about boundary's role yet. Normal is what you want to increase.

The problem is we don't really know what that number represents. For the longest time, I thought it represented 90 degrees, since there are 8 "normals" max, and the engine has 720 degrees of rotation in one cycle. So 90 makes perfect sense. Also 90 seems to line up pretty well with what the factory settings are. It is typical to see (on a warmed up engine) anywhere from 280 to 460 degrees of EOIT in Fords. Usually that number increases as engine load increases, presumably because the pulsewidth must increase and they need more time to inject the fuel.

But the further I looked into it, the words 'reference pulses' relates to crankshaft pulses. And there are 24 of them to represent 360 degrees of crank rotation. Google "LS1 24x crank signal" to see what that might look like. This leads me to believe there are 24 15-degree reference periods per crank rotation, or 48 periods per engine cycle.

I'm just not sure how those numbers somehow add up to 720 degrees. The only way we will ever know the correlation for sure is with a scope on the injector, and by changing the numbers in the tune and seeing what effect they have on the EOIT. For now though, if you make the numbers in the Normal table bigger, I believe that will increase your delay.

I didn't add anything new, I didn't make anything up, I Only repeated what was said that others might not have to search as hard for it.

Also my 'voltage problem' - thanks for bringing it into this thread btw- is extremely common for those running an LS1 OEM alternator and it turns out 100amps just isn't enough for all the aftermarket electronics I have installed.

Lets re-cap how I wound up in that position:
1. On Jan 2017 I saw my first LS engine ever in real life and decided to try a swap, bought a Nissan car that month and started
2. On Apr 2017 I had finished my first LS engine swap, by myself, with no lift, air, or special tools, in a backyard, on the dirt, and was driving it turbocharged 4l80e style
4. A year and 14,000 miles later I found out that after doing everything myself, and accidentally leaving the headlights on one day that there were some minor bugs related to the swap left to work out, such as:
A. insufficient alternator amperage
B. .... looking for a second swap bug

Considering I had done everything myself including wiring, tuning, installation, engine/trans prep, and it was my first LS engine in this lifetime, I'd say that the one single problem I've had so far is icing on a well made cake, and it gives me something to do so I am grateful for it. I had just assumed that it was my fault somehow and I enjoy troubleshooting almost as much as driving. I also like colors, try not to take the internet too seriously. We are here to learn and I am not getting in the way of that.


Finally I'd like to point out that what you've done is extremely unhelpful.

Anniversaryss you are looking for the EIOT spreadsheet. Its floating around on this forum just search Eiot, End Of Injection Timing. You need to know you valve events or duration and lift of your cam to calculate the new timing. The value you get goes into both makeup and boundary tables. I did my boundary table based off of the percentage increase, say you got a 17% increase multiply that table by 1.17. The spreadsheet works like a champ. Definitely cleaner at idle and better butt dyno feel when I used it. Don't listen to king talon that explanation is crap.

This is the same thing as coming into an internet forum and saying "Hey guys I found the fountain of youth! I used it! Its out there! Ok Bye!"

Considering the file in question is... well, a File. And that it fits on like a 1MB stick of memory (Probably 300KB or less) the fact you come running in here to tell us about it (You obviously have it) And that we do not is what we call... theres a word for that but I won't say it

[85K5Jake]

https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...797#post238797

Link for magic file

[85K5Jake]

https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...ing-what/page3

Link to magic thread for eiot

[anniversaryss]

Ive had a few spreadsheets. One said move it .25 or so.
Ive been told if my injectors were over like 70%duty cycle that it wont be enoigh for WOT operation

[85K5Jake]

Ive had a few spreadsheets. One said move it .25 or so.
Ive been told if my injectors were over like 70%duty cycle that it wont be enoigh for WOT operation

I think I moved mine 18% across the table. I definitely had to retune the VE with a wideband afterwards and it did drop my duty cycle a little over 10% at different loads on the engine.