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Thread: Licensing/Engine-VCM swaps credit requirements

  1. #1

    Licensing/Engine-VCM swaps credit requirements

    So here's my situation. I own a 99 S10 ZR2 that I put a 96 Vortec engine into. In order to get it running on 8 cylinders, I licensed a 99 Suburban 5.7 file, wrote the entire file to the 99 S10 computer, and then tweaked from there. Here's my rub:
    In order to do this, it cost 6 credits. $300. Maybe that isn't a lot to some of you, but to me it's a lot. One of the original reasons I got HPtuners so long ago was it's "everyman" tuner schtick.

    So, I completely understand 4 of the 6 credits. 2 for the vehicle itself. 2 because I need to license another file/OS. But the fact that the resultant combination needs YET ANOTHER license seems ridiculous. I can license an entire year/model group (hundreds or thousands of cars) for the same cost as getting ONE vehicle's VCM swapped from V6 to V8 (come to think of it, had I known ahead of time maybe a year/model would have worked instead if I had known I'd need the final 2 credits.

    There's 2 additional minor rubs here. The first is that I asked ahead of time about this process (that I KNOW has to have occurred numerous times over the years), and got the phrase "you'll need some credits". Now that I've done it, it seems they know exactly how many credits I need. The second is that had I known what was needed ahead of time, I could have modified the original file that was going to be flashed as extensively as possible and foregone fine-tweaking and saved the final 2 credits for full access. It seems less than forthcoming to not have been perfectly clear what would be entailed until after I'm committed. Or maybe I'm just the first non-tunershop yokel to try this. Jokes on me.

    Now, I have already paid for my final 2 credits, so while I'd absolutely love if the HPtuner guys would see my point and hook me up, this is more about what seems to be an oversight that screws the "little guys" over in the licensing/credit system. Guys, I understand that pirating is a huge deal in this business, and that your program is built to safeguard against that. But there's got to be a common sense way to not screw over someone looking to do something like this. You have an awesome product (an opinion shown by the thousands I've sent their way in license fees). I enjoyed this swap and would like to do more of them, but this tuning cost makes it almost the most expensive single cost of the entire project.

    Jon

  2. #2
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    Why did it cost you 2 more credits though?

    It should have been just the 2 for the original computer, 2 for the file you are using that is a V8 and that's it. It shouldn't have costed you an extra 2 credits to keep tuning after you wrote entire the V8 file into the 99 computer.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

    If you don't post your tune and logs when you have questions you aren't helping yourself.

  3. #3
    That's what I thought based on the discussions on the board and discussions with support. But after writing the first OS to the truck, when I went to write my new update (fixing tire size/gear ratios, some idle parameters, etc), it says "unlicensed vehicle" again. When I emailed support about it, they told me this was expected, because I have to license the original computer, the file that I'm using that's a V8, AND the hybrid created by the 2 when you write to the vehicle.

  4. #4
    HP Tuners Support
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5FDP View Post
    Why did it cost you 2 more credits though?

    It should have been just the 2 for the original computer, 2 for the file you are using that is a V8 and that's it. It shouldn't have costed you an extra 2 credits to keep tuning after you wrote entire the V8 file into the 99 computer.
    6 credits total

    the file you read from the ecm, the file you write to the ecm and the new vin/os pair you've created once you've done so. Perfectly normal.
    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

    A wise man once said "google it"

  5. #5
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    If the VIN wasn't changed would that differ?

    In the past on P01 computers we've taken a 00 computer and flashed in a 02 calibration but never changed the VIN or anything and it was just the 2 credits extra for the 02 file.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

    If you don't post your tune and logs when you have questions you aren't helping yourself.

  6. #6
    HP Tuners Support
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5FDP View Post
    If the VIN wasn't changed would that differ?

    In the past on P01 computers we've taken a 00 computer and flashed in a 02 calibration but never changed the VIN or anything and it was just the 2 credits extra for the 02 file.
    No it wouldn't differ, you are still changing the operating system which would create a NEW, THIRD vin/os pair different from both the main file & the file in the ecm before flashing the secondary file to the ecm.
    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

    A wise man once said "google it"

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill@HPTuners View Post
    No it wouldn't differ, you are still changing the operating system which would create a NEW, THIRD vin/os pair different from both the main file & the file in the ecm before flashing the secondary file to the ecm.
    1st license: Owner's vehicle
    2nd license: Another OS
    both perfectly legit, understandable.
    3rd license: SAME vehicle, SAME OS, new "combo" created by the OWNER. Why should this need another license? Because it makes the company more money?

    If you paid for 2 parking spaces next to each other, and then parked between them, should you pay for a third because you "made one" out of the 2 you paid for?

    And again, a HUGE rub here was I talked to support about doing this BEFORE I did it. While they didn't say "it'll only be 4 credits", they declined to say it would be SIX (the term "some" was used). But here you are with absolute certainty that's what it should be. Hugely misleading, in addition to acting like I was doing something far out of the ordinary (that has clearly been done numerous times before). I might have chosen to license the S10 first, then use 6 more credits to license 99 V8 trucks if I had the knowledge on the forehand. As is, I'm out, so be it, but could you at least attempt to put yourself in my shoes (and potentially plenty of other customers) and look at it as objectively as possible.

    Look, I realize someone like me is nothing to you guys, even if I've spent thousands over the decade+ I've used your product. But I'm asking for consideration of what we're really talking about, and comparison to what your other products are. An ENTIRE year/model category costs as many credits as you're saying a single OS swap on a individual vehicle would be. Does that even seem logical to you? Especially with all the disclaimers (support suggested it might brick computer and of course you're not liable) and lack of information out there. It worked. And I've already shared the information I've gained with the forum so that others like me can follow in my footsteps. I'm not trying to rip anyone off.

  8. #8
    HP Tuners Support
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    used to be we didn't even allow you to create/license an invalid vin pair such as this, basically you would take 1st license and license it for 6 credits, then take 2nd license and license it for 6 credits and flash to the ecm, using 12 credits. We changed how you can license things which cut the cost in half, I would say costing less is much better than costing more
    It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...

    A wise man once said "google it"