starting tune issues

[bbowerman]

hey guys New to hptuners and im trying to build a base file for my build i have made one up and tried comparing to some others that are close to my setup.
the tune im working on is for a gen Iv 5.3 using a gen 3 silverado ecu using 3 bar speed density max boost is 14psi for now. I got the tune idling but it seems that the timing may be jumping around to much. also the injectors are a Siemens style injector and I am unsure if I have them dialed in correctly. The afr is fluctuating from 13.2 to 14.0 at idle and will jump up when I first give it throttle but comes back closer to 13.5ish when free revving in idle.
also my fuel pressure is 58psi and I will have and Iat sensor in it tomorrow
here is the injector data I had to work with.
Technical Data

Coil Resistance: 12 Ohms / High Impedance
Static Flow Rate :80 lb/hr = 835 cc/min at 43.5PSI ( 300kPa )
Gain: 0.12ms/MG
Offset: 0.055ms
Turn on time 1.14ms at 14VDC
Turn off time: 0.85ms at 600KPa
Voltage: 8-15 Volts, nominal 13.5 Volts
Amperage: 1.0 Amps
Pressure: Min 30PSIG/ Max 100PSIG
Variance:2 %

I've worked on this tune for a while probably longer than I should've it didnt run when I started and my original NA tune was to butchered to start with. any advice to get me on the right track would be appreciated.

[5FDP]

You don't have a intake air temp sensor working, that is going to throw everything else off. I'm guessing you don't like in the frozen north pole.

Cylinder volume is setup for a 6.0 and not a 5.3, again calculations will be off.

MAF dtc's aren't set to MIL on first error for speed density.

What is the exact MAP sensor you bought? The linear and offset settings seems wrong, the KOEO MAP should be closer to 100kpa and not stuck at 105 like yours is.

[bbowerman]

Delphi 16235939 is the map sensor it is only a 2 bar style I planned on buying a 3 bar but was hoping to get a startup and somewhat of a base tune with it.
I just fixed the cylinder volume and I thought had all maf DTC set to off must not have saved it oops.

I adjusted the map. the values I found for it where,

Linear: 207.66kpa
offset: 9kpa

[5FDP]

Get a IAT working and it should be running a lot better for you with some tweaking.

[bbowerman]

thats the plan for tomorrow. and my locations barometric pressure is 101.79kpa currently so 105 is kinda high

[mowton]

As I don't see an aftermarket cam, I am recommending you reset all idle values back to stock for starters. If you are having startup problems after that, then add 1.5 g/sec to the RAF table, add 2 g/sec to the Friction initial table and 2 g/sec to the Startup table.

But get the IAT installed first.

Also attached are a sample set og Gen III Channels, Charts and Graphs....Use these. Also add the DCA to your Math User Defined> slot 8

Log again and lets see where you are at

Ed M

[bbowerman]

Cam Specs.
272/281 561"/578" 112?

just fixing the map and cylinder volumes made a big difference. I found the idle tab parameters from when it was NA with that cam and filled it in and it is idling way better and between 13.8 and 14.3 afr
I will get those parameters added in, the Iat installed and a new log update.
Thanks for all the help!

[mowton]

Cam Specs.
272/281 561"/578" 112?

just fixing the map and cylinder volumes made a big difference. I found the idle tab parameters from when it was NA with that cam and filled it in and it is idling way better and between 13.8 and 14.3 afr
I will get those parameters added in, the Iat installed and a new log update.
Thanks for all the help!

Are those cam specs at .050 or .006?

If the cam is spec'd at .050. then would double my start values and "soften" the stock adaptive idle airflow PID and under/overspeed spark settings to allow a bit more rpm swing based on the cam lope....this will stabilize the idle. If .006 then stay with my iitial recommendations.

Try disabling the idle spark correction through the VCT control in the scanner and see what happens to the idle quality...if it stays good, then the PID settings are adequate....

Ed M

[bbowerman]

thats at .050
the idle with my newest settings feel pretty smooth ill test it and see if I like it. if not that will be my next approach.

[bbowerman]

I hooked up the iat and now it will barely idle and is way lean 21 afr???
I tried adjusting the idle tab everyway I could and nothing made a difference so I switched it back to what idled fine before the IAT install.
I attached the .hpt file. idles way lean and when i give it gas it dies but if i pump the gas there is a delay then the afr shoots to 13 then back to 21 and idles out until it dies.

If i unplug the iat it smooths out and runs 14:1 afr as soon as i plug it in it raises to 20's
the attached log shows it idling then dies when I plug in the iat

btw its using a syclone style IAT in the egr block off.
ouside temp was 72 when this was logged

[bbowerman]

i let the truck sit and cool all the way down the current temp was 58 and the it was reading high. I adjusted the iat curve and got it to 61 so that is close. it did idle afterwards with an afr of about 20 here is a log of that since it idled.

[5FDP]

If the wideband is lean, add fuel and see what happens. Take the VE and smack it with 10-15% and see what the wideband does.

[bbowerman]

Guess I could I didn't know if there was a iat fuel multiplier of some sort. I will try it and see what it does

[bbowerman]

ve seemed to do the trick going to go from there and see if i can get it smoothed out.

[mowton]

ve seemed to do the trick going to go from there and see if i can get it smoothed out.

Sounds good, if you are using the Idle Channel file and tuning in open loop then add your wideband to it or if you are running in closed loop than add the Long and short term trims so we can see the AFR. Once you have the car where it will idle, now you will tune the VE. Use the Gen III MAF VE scanner files for that. You may have to reconfigure the VE table to match your RPM/MAP axis in your tune file.

The balance of the idle tuning (IAC setting, LT/STIT etc.) will be done once you have foinalized the VE table especially down in the idle area.

I would like to know the part numbers of your injectors so we can verify the injector settings...if not correct you will have to start all over :-(

Your VE table is pretty messed up. May want to start with a stock table and tune from there.....

Ed M

[bbowerman]

siemens 109991 or FI114991 they show both numbers to be the same. didnt find much good info on these injector someone said this was the data for them and it got it idling decent but It very well could be wrong. i am running an innovate wideband and found out i can use the serial data from it in the vcm scanner. just need to pickup an adapter for my laptop. it is running OLSD now But I am wanting to do CLSD later on.

attached is the aftermath of tweaks to idle under/overspeed, ve, and idle airflow adjustment. smoothest idle its had with that cam ever. even better than when it was NA with MAF tune.

[bbowerman]

Waiting on an adapter for my wideband to do anymore. Hoping this injector data is correct. I may just buy a set with available data.

[gagliano7]

That cam is actually a 222/225 112+4 at .50. If it was a 272/281 in a 5.3 good luck with idle.

[bbowerman]

You are correct. That was the spec the seller gave. but going off the number it is a Howard's cam 222/225 @ .050, .561/.578, 112 LS

[mowton]

That makes more sense

As you can see by the short scan, your RAF is about 5 g/sec too much at at least that temperature (105F).

Run the idle up to temp, shut off the fans using the VC controls in scanner and set your IAC counts (set screwon trhrottle body) to like 50-70. Then scan the RAF using the RussK approach (start cold, no fans) and let scanner collect Idle desired airflow over the temp range defined in your RAF table. Watch the LTIT and STIT as they wll tell you haow far off you are.

Ed M