Help with E85 Base Tune

[John_C]

I have a 2010 Camaro SS L99/A6. Only mods are cat deletes, catback, cold air intake and scoop.

I installed the DSX Tuning Flex Fuel sensor and enabled all the Flex Fuel stuff via HP Tuners.

Problem is, nothing seems to be populated; just a bunch of 0's in the tables.

Can you guys give me some base E85 tune settings to start with?

I have no clue where to start with this.

Right now I have a blend to ease in to the E85 so I can see my fuel pump and injectors duty cycle.

Sensor is showing around 43%-ish ethanol in the tank with 93 pump.

My AEM wide-bands are showing 14.7-ish AFR still, so the PCM is not compensating I suppose.

Thanks in advance.

[5FDP]

Disregard AFR and use lambda, your wideband is still setup on the gas scale so it's always going to show stoich at or around 14.7.

You should see the commanded AFR in the scanner showing a lower number commanded like around 11-12 afr because of the alcohol content. This is why lambda is better, lambda stays at 1.00 no matter the fuel you are using.

Post your tune, what tables shows zero?

[John_C]

I'm logging in lambda if that helps.

I'm at about 44% Ethanol right now.

Short drive after adding more E85 to my 93 pump.

Flex_7.hpl

Tune with Flex Fuel enabled, but nothing has been adjusted yet.

flex.hpt

[John_C]

Zero tables:

Engine > Spark > Advance > General > Alcohol Adder > [ECM] 12661 Max Torque Timing Alcohol Adder.

Engine > Spark > Advance > Spark Correction > AFR Correction > Alcohol [ECM] 12635 - PE/COT Apark Advance Correction (Alcohol) vs. RPM vs. EQ Ratio

Engine > Spark > Advance > Spark Correction > Misc > Flex Fuel Spark > [ECM] 12678 - Flex Fuel Spark

Engine> Fuel > Transient > Transient Fuel Mass Gain > Blend > [ECM] 13626 - Impact Factor Blend

Engine> Fuel > Transient > Evap Factor > [ECM] 13629 Evaporation Factor Blend

Not sure if this is related, but...

Engine> Fuel > Transient > Warmup Transient Fuel Correct > Base Gain > [ECM] 13620 - Stomp Compensation Base Gain

[dreksnot]

This has been working fairly well for me at low cruise and high load. Do note I did re-scale my airmass axis since I'm FI, and this works in conjunction with my high octane table.

FFtable.JPG

[GHuggins]

Nice numbers on that Camaro Dreksnot...

[dreksnot]

Nice numbers on that Camaro Dreksnot...

7,165ft altitude does wonders for a dyno correction factor. 1.286

[GHuggins]

Your at 7200ish feet elevation? Wow...

[John_C]

This has been working fairly well for me at low cruise and high load. Do note I did re-scale my airmass axis since I'm FI, and this works in conjunction with my high octane table.

FFtable.JPG

Will that work well for my n/a setup?

Would I need to rescale my airmass?

If so, can you post your tune file so I can copy that whole table with axis and paste it to my tune?

[doc350]

It will be a decent starting point for you car, but since he is boosted, you don't want to run his airmass axis, keep the one that is in your tune already.

[John_C]

So as long as I have my AEM widebands and HP Tuners scanner set to lambda, 1.000 is always going to be correct AFR for Ethanol?

Odd because my friend with a 2015 GT said his AFR drops to like 10:1 on E85.

Whenever I switch to E85 from 93 I can tell it is making its way to the engine finally by watching the AFR. On E it drops to around 10:1 and then when I switch back it pops back up to the 14's. I usually fill up at the same place and hit the highway home and its kinda fun to watch it slowly start dropping or raising the AFR while cruising along.

[John_C]

Where in my tune do i go to command the correct AFR for E85?

[5FDP]

Nothing changes there.

Like I said in my first post and from the stuff you are read, the flex fuel sensor is reading the alcohol content in the fuel and adjusting the stoich ratio on the fly. The stoich table is setup to read in AFR, so 50% alcohol content could be 10.5 afr as an example and that is what the commanded AFR channel in the scanner would show.

The commanded EQ or lambda would always stay at 1.00 though. If you tune in lambda all the tuning you do will be dialing in the fueling back to lambda 1.00.

You can google a general lambda to AFR chart if you wish for doing power enrichment EQ ratio. Like where .85 commanded lambda is 12.54 afr and the EQ ratio would be 14.68/1.170 = 12.54.

[dreksnot]

It will be a decent starting point for you car, but since he is boosted, you don't want to run his airmass axis, keep the one that is in your tune already.

I dug deep into my tune archive and found a tune that wasn't scaled to my boost but still had, what I'm considering, a decent FF spark table. This one has the stock axis of up to 1.36g airmass, so it is probably a good starting point. The rest of the tune is a hosh-posh of playing around (tune in progress), and I wouldn't really do any more copy-and-pasting of it. You can look over my other Alcohol tables to see what I did.

[John_C]

Logs, channels and current tune.

Flex.Channels.xml

Flex_12_sport.hpl

Flex_12_drive.hpl

flex.hpt

[5FDP]

Outside of power enrichment it looks pretty good, commanded and actual are staying very close and the fuel trims are doing good.

But in PE the commanded lambda and the actual lambda aren't jiving right now. The EQ ratio still looks factory and that's really fat and your widebands are both reading leaner than the commanded.

You are running the MAF currently so add to the MAF curve above like 7,000hz ish to richen the fuel mixture to match your commanded target. Try like 2-3% at a time to add little by little to get close to the target EQ. Once you are there then you should take your entire power enrichment EQ ratio and lean the whole table out. On E85 or the mixed blend you are running you should totally be able to command a 12.5 or so AFR or .85 lambda. (up to the user if they wish to run leaner later on). Remember you have both a regular EQ and alcohol EQ you should adjust.

It really shouldn't take much tuning to dial in the rest here. You can also create a lambda error for this as well and it help you just as well for dialing everything in.

[John_C]

I see what your saying now.

My forum buddy explained it here: http://streetntrack.net/topic/2490-t...&comment=61558

[John_C]

E85 Flex Fuel Logs, tune, channels, graphs...

Flex_15_drive.hpl

Flex_15_sport.hpl

Flex.Layout.xml

New_Flex.Channels.xml

flex_new-1.hpt

[5FDP]

You're getting pretty close, so keep pecking away at it.

Since you are getting much closer you really should start leaning out the commanded AFR to around 12.5 because you are pushing over 100% duty cycle on the injectors. Bringing the commanded AFR back down to 12.5 instead of 11.0-11.2ish you should gain back maybe 7-9% on the duty cycle to stay under 95-100% all the time.

[John_C]

You're getting pretty close, so keep pecking away at it.

Since you are getting much closer you really should start leaning out the commanded AFR to around 12.5 because you are pushing over 100% duty cycle on the injectors. Bringing the commanded AFR back down to 12.5 instead of 11.0-11.2ish you should gain back maybe 7-9% on the duty cycle to stay under 95-100% all the time.

The commanded AFR always confuses me.

Sometimes I've plugged in #'s and it threw everything way off.

How exactly do I do it correctly so one area doesn't throw off another.

Injectors are on the list. I can't tell if I need a fuel pump yet because the software has the duty cycle stuck at 99.6 all the time.

Not sure what size I need, though, because I have Kooks LT's, full Kooks 3in exhaust, Texas Speed VVT 3.2 cam an DOD delete kit, Texas Speed roller rockers, and Trick Flow GenX 255's waiting to go on the car when I get time.

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