2017 5.0 auto tvs showing knock but timing is set quite low

[kaineoutlaw]

So i have a tvs car and have all the mapped points set from 2k-7k @1.10 and up load in bkt to 12? timing. Under wot it has positive knock around 3500^
To top it off the engine is built w 10.1 pistons so its lil less compression than oem.
Should i make the sensors a bit less sensitive or what? Idk if the tvs itself can cause a false knock. Im not hearing any ping or knock but the car is loud.
Is there a way to isolate each cylinder to see if a particular cylinder is knocking? I dont feel its a real knock tho.

Also if anyone can tell me if tbey are running op tables to simplify the process?

[tbrtuning]

Change knock mode to Per Cylinder to see which cylinder is picking it up.

Did you try pulling a little timing where you're seeing the knock? Depending on boost you might just have to be a bit more conservative with it until 4,500-5,000. Simplifying mapped points would be using a setup like the new Roush strategy posted so you only use a few mapped points

[murfie]

Change knock mode to Per Cylinder to see which cylinder is picking it up.

Did you try pulling a little timing where you're seeing the knock? Depending on boost you might just have to be a bit more conservative with it until 4,500-5,000. Simplifying mapped points would be using a setup like the new Roush strategy posted so you only use a few mapped points

Have you tried this?

I don't think the per cylinder PIDs become available in the scanner just from that switch in the tune file. Working with support you might be able to eventually get it to work.

[tbrtuning]

Yes. I tune this way sometimes but then again I tend to take a non traditional approach to some things. Repoll for parameters with a tune flashed that has Per Cylinder set as Knock Mode. S197 probably won't have the correct PIDs but S550 always seems to have them.

[15PSI]

TVS Blowers are noisy and they will produce knock from their mechanics. De-sensitize your knock sensors by 20% in the tune and see if this reduces the KR. I have seen two calibrations for the TVS by two different tuners that I respect, both had the knock sensors de-sensitized by 50%. I would start a bit lower than that.

[kaineoutlaw]

Thank you all for the input. Ill try these recommendations and get back w a log w each method

[kaineoutlaw]

On de-sensitize part of the knock sensors, the gain should be decreased correct? The whole table?

[kaineoutlaw]

Ive lowered from 15* above 1.10 and above 3k to 9* and took 25% from the knocksensor gain out. Its going to bkt tables and shows commanded 9* and still pulls up to 5* spark for knock. Im feeling like it should not pull timimg as my initial tune was 15* w kr pulling 4-5* so w 9* bkt it should be knock free one would think. How sensitive are the sensors? I have the harness tied w zipties at the rear of the intake but idk maybe the harness is hitting something causing false knock. Like if i lower my timing to 9* w 9-10 psi on a 10:1 cr i feel like it sbould def not knock lol my af is .790 now as well and wideband shows its fueling proper. Still need to try knock per cylinder and repoll to see if it shows the pids. But so far im thinking its false knock.
After i try that ill put several logs and the tune up. Just so everyone can compare them to see what they think. Would post tonight but left the laptop ontop of my box at the shop.

[murfie]

You are right in removing gain from the knock sensor tab. It does sound like false knock with what you are saying.

The other table you can play with is knock retard as its based on intensity in the 2015+. You can see if its a soft knock or a loud knock its hearing.

Knock intensity.PNG

[kaineoutlaw]

i noticed no matter how low i set the spark from 4* to 14* it always pics up knock on #5 it was 5 and 6 but the airbox was loose. they only have one mounting point on the roush box, its really loose and w loosening the clamp and twisting the box downward causing it to have pressure on it so it wont shake so much it only shows #5 knock now. this is using RIDENRUNWV way of knock per cyl. it does work for all who is curious, he has helped me alot with ideas on all of this.
RIDENRUNWV and murfie both rec the knock-intensity table and i have not had the chance to test that but i will in the morning.
i noticed the plugs on 5 and 6 have a bit of tan look on the strap. i was thinking of adding fuel to both of those cylinders. im guessing the imbalance table you would add to the number to get richer on that cylinder? if anyone knows let me know as i have never tried to richen a cylinder or two individually and i do not want to experiment on a new engine and blower lol

[kaineoutlaw]

supercharger roush stuff knock per cyl mod vvt.hpt17gtwot14.hplcz wot kr per cyl.hpl2017 3gt.Channels.xml

last tune diff logs one I think is where I had it set bkt pretty low

[06300CSRT8]

Don't forget when logging knock per cylinder, the positive amounts are adding timing, negative is knock. It is not the same logic as the regular knock retard PID you are used to (negative was adding timing, positive is actual knock).

[06300CSRT8]

I do see a little knock but its after the shift, I would be curious if you stayed in it if it cleared up. Very rare to see one cylinder pulling 2* of timing and the rest adding 2* of timing. Did you double check your gap on the plugs as well?

[kaineoutlaw]

On tbe one cylinder it will pull 5? sometimes and then none at times. Going to try to see if a breather set up on the pcv works. Its currently in the bodyshop for warranty and body panels not lining up. It is only 9-10psi and has colder plugs, safe timing, pretty rich fuel.
I do hear some rattle at idle and light tapping of the throttle from the engine area but sounds like many other coyote engines. Ive heard more than not have some light rattling but i feel thats common.
I even put some adjustable polly engine mounts on, lowered the engine 3/4" to make sure it wasnt hitting the hood because it did have wear spots on the liner.
When i do a pull it does throw smoke out but i would think thats normal w 11.2af
Just dont see why if it were detonating that its one cylinder.

[Auto-Hentzschel]

fill your car with race fuel! if the knock goes away, you have a knock/timing issue. if the knock don't goes away, you need to adjust the knock sensor sensibility!

[GHuggins]

You said it's a built engine with 10:1 compression - it's not an alluminator is it? Last one of those I tuned, I wound up killing the knock sensors all together and tuning via dyno and plugs only while still leaving it super detuned - no matter what I did it showed knock coming and going from different cylinders... This is a last resort thing, so check out everything else first...

[kaineoutlaw]

so I filled the car w 112 and still shows knock on 5 and 6. zero out the knock sensor gain on 5 and 6 and still shows knock on 5 and 6.... could the harness be ass backwards for the knock sensors causing this? im only commanding 12* timing on 8-9psi w af .8 and w the sensors gain on 5 and 6 zero out it seems to show knock quicker so idk
here is the log
knock w 5 and 6 gain at zero.hpl

[kaineoutlaw]

btw its not a aluminator, mmr shortblock sleeved w manley rod and pistons w boss crank

[kaineoutlaw]

just for a experiment to see if the harness was crossed between the two sensors I zero out 1 and 2 along w 5 and 6 knock gain tables and it pulled -4* on 1,2,5,6.... sooo what the hell???? the description says higher values are more sensitive.... so all 0 should be non active right???
here is the log
zero gain in knock sensor sensitivity on 1,2,5,6 shows -4 on all.hpl

[tbrtuning]

Try Knock Factor not Knock Gain