Injector upgrade for the LS3

[RRRocketMan]

So I have been discussing this over on the Camaro5 forums and made some headway but a major piece of the puzzle remained missing until I chanced upon some posts here.

I am looking to upgrade my 2013 Camaro SS stock 42# injectors to the LSA's 56# injectors...or I was until I found out that the spray pattern is different and causes puddling and they might not have the same physical length, etc. etc. This was on top of previous concerns that 56# might not be suitable for the 600HP regime.

Since there are so many injectors out there, I am hoping you all can help me with a simple question. What are the cheapest injectors that will just barely supply fuel for a 600RWHP boosted application, which fit in the LS3 without spray pattern issues or fitment issues AND which have the complete HPTuners data available so I don't have to guess what to change the values to? Please and thank you. I nearly blew $600 last night on the LSA injectors without knowing about the spray concerns.

[5FDP]

What about flex fuel 50lb/hr injectors from a 6.0 that goes in the chevy express vans and gmc savanna/work trucks.

I bought a brand new set off ebay for 109 shipped that I'm using on a LSA swap in the near future. I too looked for LSA injectors but they cost way too much. Your other choice is 52lb/hr 6.2 flex fuel injectors off the silverado/sierra's.

[RRRocketMan]

Thanks 5FDP. Are any of those the "compact" EV14 style injectors (direct fit replacement) and do you know what data needs to be changed in HPT when you do the swap? I recall seeing a thread some years ago but can no longer find it. Thanks.

[5FDP]

As far as I can tell the truck injectors are the same size as the LSA injectors, they look basically the same in the pictures with the same style connector. Seen a few guys running the 6.2 truck injectors in swaps before.

You'd just need the injector flow rate numbers and if any of the offset/voltage settings are different. That would be easy enough to see if you compared two different tune files.

[hivoltagedriver]

I'm running the LSA injectors in my G8 with no problems. Currently has a 428 LSX making around 640hp, and I'm logging less than 80% IDC. Stock (ported) LS3 intake and fuel rails. It is NA though. And they can be had for WAY less than $600.

[5FDP]

I've found LSA injectors for 250-300 all the time but when I found my 50lb/hr for just over 100 I couldn't pass on that deal lol.

[cc-rider]

Get a set of ID850's. Perfect data available and dimensionally perfect for the LS3. I run ID1000's in my LS3 but only because I have a Kenne Bell supercharger and the fuel rail to manifold distance is longer and needs the ID1000's which are longer than the ID850's.

ID injectors just plain work. The data they provide is plug and play. I am about 600 to the wheels now with a PD supercharger pushing 9.5 psi and my injector duty cycle only hits 45% at the max push. My idle IDC is at something like 0.5% IDC and the car idles and purs like stock.

ID850's have been the go-to injector for stock rail/manifold length LS3's for years now. I'm willing to bet you won't be dissapointed.

[5FDP]

But $100-200 for factory stock injectors with known data is so much cheaper lol.

[cc-rider]

Not sure those 50lb injectors will take on 600 rwhp. It all depends on the fuel system and type of build. NA build...will probably be ok. Forced induction...don't think so. And the original poster here said "boosted RWHP". So I'm not sure 50lb injectors are going to cut it here. Maybe with a triple pump return system set up to run 70psi or something (there is a data point to support anything).
But running the LS3 returnless fuel pump set up...I'd highly recommend a ZL1 fuel pump, ADM FPCM, and ID850 injectors for a boosted 600 rwhp set up.

And with regard to the original post here and the LSA injectors being all messed up with "puddling" and other things. Ehhhhhh. Not sure about that. I think that has more to do with the injection timing than spray patterns. Sometimes you see people slap in a set of injectors and don't know how to adjust this...-!; all of a sudden it's the injectors fault. And perhaps with the stock LS3 injector timing and the LSA injectors...there's an issue with puddling on the valve. But I think many people have made this set up work. Seek out Ghuggins here on this board. He's an injection timing guru.

Then you have the manifold volume setting too. Which has helped so many of us finally get the transient shot right for boosted applications. HP Tuners finally mapped that out for us about a year ago and we are still figuring it out. But has a huge affect on the transient shot (which affects so called "puddling")

[5FDP]

Yeah 50's might not make it there, 56-60lb should but like you said it depends on fuel system and even what AFR someone wants to command.

[RRRocketMan]

Didn't realize there were recent replies... Just an update.

I spoke at length on several occasions with multiple injector suppliers including Injector Dynamics, Deutzworks (sp?) and Five-O and also with Bosch a few times.

I guess the takeaway that was consistent with all of them is that 50 lb @3bar is more than enough for the 600 WHP regime because at 4bar (Camaro) it's higher and the ccs are closer to 700 which more than meets the demand and can counter the boost pressure.

Bosch designs their LSA injectors with an offset spray pattern due to the supercharger swirl, which is probably fine if you have positive displacement but for a centrifugal blower like my design, it was not recommended. I ended up ordering the DW 50lb injectors.

Since they were the same price as the next level up you might wonder why I didn't get more injector for the same price... this goes back to another point I discussed at length. The pulse width that the selenoid and inertial mass can handle is limited on the low end. You don't want too small a duty cycle or the valve won't fully open/close. It's always better to try to use the full range of duty available so if you don't need more than 50lbs you shouldn't use more than 50 lbs. Your fuel control will be more precise if your duty is as far away from 0% and 100% as possible, right in the middle. That was my reasoning which was corroborated by the experts. I'm happy that my set was flow matched and I got individual injector bench test data so I can pick which injectors go in which cylinders. That's a real plus for me. DW also assured me that they have never had an RMA for a stuck open injector that was a TOP FEED style in the last several years they looked into. I didn't want to hydrolock the engine.